site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 24, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

20
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Finally we're seeing the extent of the damage of the Kanye controversy

In the span of a month, Kanye West has destroyed his empire

The losses have cost Ye billions, he says, but he's unfazed. In an Instagram post Thursday, he said, "I lost 2 billion dollars in one day and I'm still alive." The dropoff means West may have fallen out of the billionaires' club. As of Thursday morning, Forbes estimates his net worth is $400 million; the news outlet previously estimated the value of Ye's Adidas deal to be $1.5 billion.

Meanwhile, Gap announced Tuesday that it had shut down YeezyGap.com and was taking immediate action remove those products from stores, saying, "Antisemitism, racism, and hate in any form are inexcusable and not tolerated in accordance with our values."

yup..YeezyGap.com redirects to gap.com

What I don't understand is, how is his wealth being calculated here? Wouldn't Kanye's wealth be a roughly monotonically increasing function , that being his income from his endorsement deals? Losing said deals would not mean he has to forfeit accumulated wealth, just that he stops making any new wealth? So either he was never worth $2 billion or this decline is somehow based on some extrapolation?

From the Forbes link, it looks like an extrapolation : https://www.forbes.com/profile/kanye-west/?sh=515edd0c56f1

Forbes had valued the Adidas deal at $1.5 billion. Without it, West's fortune drops to $400 million.

That seems misleading to say someone is worth something but it's not actually realized

To add, it shows how the mere accusation of racism or antisemitism is the left's superpower. It forces the accused to go on the defense and presumes some guilt. Any nuance or misunderstanding on the accused goes out the window. You can destroy someone's reputation this way even if it was a mistake. As popular as anti-woke sentiment is on twitter ,like Rogan and Musk, it does not matter if the people who hold the levers of power are still, by in large, woke , and and you have to literally be a self-made millionaire to survive said accusations without being completely destroyed career-wise or reputationally. Someone can argue "what Kanye said was really egregious" but people have been cancelled, banned for less and it does not change the automatic presumption of guilt.

That seems misleading to say someone is worth something but it's not actually realized

This is how wealth is always reported. And yes, it is misleading--Jeff Bezos is "worth" over $100 billion on paper, but if he were to try to cash that out all at once, there's no way he'd get $100 billion out of it. The price of his stock would plummet faster than he could sell it, never mind finding $100 billion in cash buyers. It seems safe to assume that Amazon stock is somewhat more robust in valuation than Kanye's endorsement deal with Adidas, but the basic principle is the same.

In fact much of Bezos' worth is, in the terminology of the IRS, "unrealized gains." Capital gains are "realized" (and thus, taxed) only during certain events, usually sales. If I sign a contract for $1 billion to endorse Adidas shoes for the next ten years, I can walk into a bank with that contract and take out loans against that deal. If Adidas backs out, well, I'm gonna default on those loans, so the bank might be hesitant to loan too much money on that promise, but they would definitely loan some. We almost always evaluate wealthy people's worth based not only on cash-on-hand, but on a combination of liabilities and assets. A promise from Adidas to pay $1 billion over ten years is an asset, even if it is not as stable an asset as a mansion or a yacht.

Capital gains are "realized" (and thus, taxed) only during certain events, usually sales. If I sign a contract for $1 billion to endorse Adidas shoes for the next ten years, I can walk into a bank with that contract and take out loans against that deal.

And this is why wealthy people who live off their investments don't pay taxes. Let's say I own $100 million in Berkshire Hathaway stock and I want to spend $4 million per year. I could sell $4 million in stock and then pay capital gain taxes. Or, I could borrow $4 million against the stock and pay no taxes. The interest on the margin debt is even deductible.

Note: This worked a lot better when margin interest was as low as 1%.