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Wellness Wednesday for January 15, 2025

The Wednesday Wellness threads are meant to encourage users to ask for and provide advice and motivation to improve their lives. It isn't intended as a 'containment thread' and any content which could go here could instead be posted in its own thread. You could post:

  • Requests for advice and / or encouragement. On basically any topic and for any scale of problem.

  • Updates to let us know how you are doing. This provides valuable feedback on past advice / encouragement and will hopefully make people feel a little more motivated to follow through. If you want to be reminded to post your update, see the post titled 'update reminders', below.

  • Advice. This can be in response to a request for advice or just something that you think could be generally useful for many people here.

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I can't google anything useful about my issue and Claude is largely unhelpful, the doctors try to diagnose me with depression (I have a very well managed SAD, so I technically might qualify but this is not the main root cause), sports medicine physicians just don't exist where I am, so I want to dump the list of the symptoms I have and see whether you guys can help me come up with a direction to dig.

The main issue: when I do sports, whether it's cardio or weightlifting, I find it really hard to sleep. Fundamentally, my sleep is more fragile. I fall asleep easily all of the time, but when I work out it's easier for me to wake up during the night (for any reason, e.g. noise, wanting to go pee, being too hot, being too cold) and harder to fall back asleep after I wake up.

  • I've had those problems regardless of whether I'm depressed or not. But in general, I'm not depressed. I get depressed when I don't get enough sleep consistently.
  • Given the allotted time slot of 7 hours 40 minutes, when working out, I sleep 5-6 hours, when I'm not I sleep around 7+ hours.
  • I've worked out consistently for over a year and during all of that time my sleep quality was in the dumpster. As soon as I stopped, it improved drastically. I stopped waking up in the middle of the night as much and I have no trouble falling back asleep almost entirely. I thought that if I power through sleep issues, they are going to go away, but they didn't.
  • I tried to start working out again and bad sleep quality was back after the first session.
  • If I engage in a physically demanding activity (for example a hike) bad quality returns the same day.
  • I have a restless leg syndrome and drink magnesium for it. Magnesium removes the feeling in my shins almost entirely, but it seems like it flares up more when I work out. Rolling out the shins doesn't help.
  • When I work out, I am constantly thirsty, regardless of how much I drink. Due to that, I wake up to go pee 2 or 3 times a night. I tried to stop drinking 1-2 hours before going to bed, but it just feels really uncomfortable.
  • I was working out both when I restricted calories and when I was supporting my current weight. When restricting calories, I woke up due to being hungry sometimes (I attribute that to the sleep being fragile).
  • Working from the assumption that this might be related to the restless legs syndrome, I tried to refrain from targeting legs in my workouts, but it doesn't really matter which muscle group I target.
  • I maintain strict sleep hygiene, so we can rule out external factors.
  • Room where I sleep is cool, dark and (reasonably) quiet.
  • I tried working out in the morning and it doesn't matter when I do it.
  • I thoroughly stretched after the work out (when I did work out) and I also stretch before going to bed.
  • I tried adding more electrolytes (i.e. Gatorade), but I don't know what the hell I'm doing or what I'm measuring. In any case, I eat a lot of salt as is and I didn't notice any difference when adding additional electrolytes in my diet.

I desperately want to see a doctor, but they are trying to diagnose me with a mental health problem rather than a chemical imbalance. Feel free to ignore my complaints about doctors and suggest me to see a doctor, but I'd be grateful if you could spell out what I should say to him.

The simplest explanation is that exercise is depleting nutrients that you are currently borderline low in.

Have you tested your Iron and Ferritin levels recently? RLS is caused by not enough dopamine being processed by certain receptors. One of the co-factors for this process is iron. So low iron will by definition cause RLS. It could be something else causing low dopamine but since magnesium helps you temporarily, it seems worth trying.

Do not trust the doctors if they try to pin your problems on something psychological. They just default to that when they don't have a clue. I would also wager that your depression is a symptom of a underlying physical problem.

Solving nutrition / chronic illness problems is very complicated and very few people know what they are doing. Experimentation and sceptical but open-minded reading is sadly the best approach that I have found.

If I were you I'd try a basic multi-vitamin before and/or after exercise (just one with reasonalbe RDA, like 50-100%) and a high-quality (but low potency, iron poisoning is a thing and is very bad) iron supplement. Try it for maybe a week (or until you feel something), then re-evaluate. If something gets better try to figure out what. Since just spamming supplements without understanding them is bad long-term, but fine short-term, usually. So ordering some blood tests and researching the results is also recommended. Doctors will only react when the values are profoundly bad, especially if you are young.

Nutritional deficiency was more or less also my instinct when I read the description. The mechanism I had envisioned is:

  1. Sweating + some diuresis triggers a thirst response
  2. OP reacts by consuming a bunch of sodium and water, thus the night time need to pee
  3. The increased urination flushes other critical minerals (including Iron which I failed to mention)
  4. Deficiency in blood mineral concentration increases thirst, return to 2.

I also agree that blood-work could be helpful here, but it would still be hard to interpret. Finding a physician who can properly interpret the results usually requires a specialist, and even that is hit-or-miss.

Even with a multi-vitamin, do you you think separate supplementation for each under covered nutrient with individual or a multi-mineral would also be advisable? My recollection is most common multi-vitamins still do not come close to even 50% RDA on several important minerals (including iron and potassium). Blanketing the spectrum does seem a lot easier than accurate tracking, but also makes it really hard to isolate variables.

Assuming, you do need supplements in addition to the multi, how important is nutrient timing in your opinion? For example if OP is supplementing vitamin D, calcium, and iron. How strong is the synergistic effect of D+calcium and how strong is the antagonistic effect of calcium+iron?

I was also thinking last night that perhaps the need to supplement magnesium in the first place is already mostly explanatory. OP didn't mention which type of magnesium supplement they was using. Of the zillion options which do you think is best for bio-availability, the ability to cross the blood-brain barrier, and sleep, Magnesium L-Threonate? Is it possible the version OP is using is just barely available enough to affect RLS, but not available enough at the brain? On timing, most recommendations are to take magnesium at night for sleep. In my personal experience if I take magnesium right before bed I end up with crazy dreams. With my last big meal of the day, or even at breakfast, tends to work better for me.

I take 400mg Magnesium Bisglycinate 1-1.5 hours before sleep. No weird dreams, no feeling in the legs either

Check the start of this video. https://youtube.com/watch?v=h5Hyhmxli54

I have not watched it completely so I'm not sure if he mentions gut inflammation later on, but I doubt it. But as said in the video, the main cause of RLS is iron deficiency inside the brain. Getting stuff into the brain is complicated, minerals especially. Gut inflammation can screw with this process. If you have gut problems you should probably try to fix it, since it tends to get worse over time otherwise.