site banner
naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   30935 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 7, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

13
Bottom New Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Also, it doesn't really strike me as possible Kurvitz & co are actual communists; the game is way too nuanaced to be a product of true believer cogitation.

"Communist" probably means anarchist here, mostly. The game makes it fairly obvious they aren't really that sympathetic towards old Soviet-style communism, figures as much.

They also aren't sympathetic to revolutionaries eitgher. One thing that cemented it was mention of a staff of a small cutting edge computing company getting lined up and shot during the revolution..for unclear reasons.

They have a portrait of Stalin hanging in their office and gave thanks to Marx and Engels during their VGA award acceptance speech. Maybe some part of it is ironic and/or they're like the portion of /pol/ who like to use Hitler and the swastika as edgy symbols despite not being neo-nazis themselves, but it's not as straightforward as just being anti-Soviet anarchists.

I feel that has to be a psy-op on their part, getting the clueless idiots in gaming journalism on their side.

In-game communist are portrayed as bloody handed idealists who leave corpses in their wake, slaughter a small computing company for no good reason and manage to build a nuclear reactor but fuck it up and get their very own meltdown. They replace a corrupt monarchy with something that doesn't work and it all ends in a bloody failure.

Moralintern is deeply weird. Eh. Dammit, I hoped for a second game.

Moralintern is basically EU. Crossed with NATO, but mostly EU. The conversation with the Moralintern bureaucrat who has a thing going on with the guy smoking in the balcony makes this very clear to anyone with even a passing familiarity with EU rhetoric. Moralism is basically equivalent to EU's functional guiding ideology, stripped of the federalist impulse: ever-present, continuous progress at a snail's pace, so slowly one might not even notice it at all times... but above all economic stability ("constant 2 % inflation rate" and so on).

That part (the EU bureaucrat being a homo sex tourist) made me chuckle.

It's too bad people who make up the EU bureaucracy are working from false premises. I could imagine being in favor of a Moralintern. It works, sort of.

EU doesn't. But EU is absolutely wrong on energy policy, immigration, education and also defense. It's not actively working to kick yanks out, it's wrong on education and the energy debacle is absolutely a catastrophe. Mind you, yanks are now talking about how to drag EU into their China war because they have 'saved us' from the Russian menace in Ukraine.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats