Tuesday November 8, 2022 is Election Day in the United States of America. In addition to Congressional "midterms" at the federal level, many state governors and other more local offices are up for grabs. Given how things shook out over Election Day 2020, things could get a little crazy.
...or, perhaps, not! But here's the Megathread for if they do. Talk about your local concerns, your national predictions, your suspicions re: election fraud and interference, how you plan to vote, anything election related is welcome here. Culture War thread rules apply, with the addition of Small-Scale Questions and election-related "Bare Links" allowed in this thread only (unfortunately, there will not be a subthread repository due to current technical limitations).
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Notes -
My problem is that it still hasn't been demonstrated to me that the action abolishing Disney's local control benefits the taxpayers of Florida, rather than harming both Disney and Florida. Lose-lose governance by deterrence does not appeal to me. Sanctity of contract is also highly important to me, but I'm not sure that carries broadly beyond business-Rs. I'm open to evidence that it's good, but I haven't seen it.
I think you're ignoring the "ignore it" option. DeSantis could have just said "You stick to cartoons, I'll run the state" and decried Disney's intrusion into politics, without wading into the muck with them. If you're wealthy, you probably own shares in many "woke corporations" and you don't want to get punished for what management does.
It benefits the people of Florida by ensuring that the people calling the shots are the politically accountable people, rather than (Californian!) corporations. There may or may not be a pricetag in dollars that will ultimately fall to Florida (I wouldn't even be surprised to see DeSantis backpedal on this under the right circumstances) but the political benefit seems obvious and arguably priceless. (For a much bigger example of this, see Brexit. The economic cost has been substantial, probably, but Brexit did accomplish exactly what it was supposed to: it liberated the UK from being a vassal state of Brussels.)
Same--but win-lose governance where leftists demand every W and conservatives are expected to eat every L appeals to me far, far less.
Right--then he's all talk, no action. Pass.
Then you should appreciate Ron DeSantis reminding management to stay in their lane, so as to avoid pointless confrontations with government actors. Woke Corporatism is a plague on politics, but it's not going to go away until it negatively impacts enough people's bottom line, so I think it is good to impose costs on corporations that seek to extract private profits by polluting the political commons. Of course, I say that as someone who misses the anti-corporatism of the late conservative Chief Justice Rehnquist. Presumably more pro-corporate conservatives will have a different view.
Inflammatory claim that needs some evidence surely? If you want to say it's supporters made that claim, then that is fine. But let's not assume facts not in evidence without at least substantiating your claim. The UK government was far from a vassal in my opinion. And I worked there!
Guess I'm just not sufficiently plugged in to European politics to understand why this would be "inflammatory." In this context, "vassal" just means--
As a part of the EU, the UK was legally subordinate to decisions made in Brussels (the administrative center of the EU), so I was just describing the literal state of the law pre-Brexit. When you say "The UK government was far from a vassal" are you asserting something like, "the UK did get to participate in the decision-making process, and therefore was not a vassal" maybe? If so, I don't really buy that; the UK was not EU occupied territory (modulo, perhaps, some worries over immigration) and the UK was not an EU colony (see previous qualifier), but I don't think it's inaccurate to say that the people of the UK ultimately chafed at being in a legally subordinate position to Brussels.
But perhaps I have simply failed to understand something about your objection.
Correct. Otherwise every voter is a vassal of the government no? Which I don't think is something most people would accept (Libertarians as always excluded.). In any case the vassal framing was used by one particular side, so if you want to claim it is unconditionally correct, in an aside it probably requires more explanation.
Just like groomer, or Nazi, vassal has a set of emotional connotations which is why it is used by one side as an attack. It is a good political attack don't get me wrong. I certainly endorsed its use in that context (I may be a Remainer but I was being paid by (some of) the Tories at the time) but it isn't neutral, let alone indisputably accurate.
Indeed--every voter is a vassal of the government.
I don't want to say this without couching it very carefully, because it's pretty antagonistic standing on its own in ways I don't want to convey, but my initial reaction to this parenthetical was "well a hearty 'fuck you' to you, too"--followed by some indication that I say it with a smile. I'm not offended, genuinely. But if you think in terms of "libertarians as always excluded" then it's no wonder at all that you failed to take my meaning in the first place. If you think in terms of "libertarians as always excluded," then you have a very slim chance of genuinely understanding anything I write, ever. The community even has a rule about this, come to think of it...
I didn't know this, but it doesn't surprise me. Except that in this case I would say that the side that refused to use this framing was the side engaging in disingenuous rhetoric. It's literally true, and not in a weird edge-case way; every member state of the EU is a vassal of the central organization. Watching the EU force economic medicine on Greece is exceedingly strong evidence that this is so. Saying "but the Greeks participate in the decision-making process" is classic rhetorical bullshit. Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what is for dinner. Doubtless many vassal states in empires across the ages got to "participate in the decision-making process" before they were ultimately given marching orders disregarding their contribution to the conversation.
It may not be neutral, and I accept your contextual explanation in that regard. But it does seem indisputably accurate, once you stop excluding libertarians (as, I would contend, you should). So I feel comfortable continuing to call groomers "groomers," Nazis "Nazis," and vassals "vassals," until such time as I have clearer words for the concomitant groups, behaviors, and/or phenomena.
Kind of, yes. And from a libertarian-ish perspective, I think that’s a very good pro-remain argument. Brexit just changes where the asshole that decides your life sits, london or brussels. Is the cheese standardization he will inevitably impose on you, going to be in metric or imperial ? Those are the kind of monumental policy changes that hang in the balance here, justifying all this circus. Who gives a shit? Brexit, and all separatist movements, are a giant waste of time and political energy. Convincing common people to find honor and pride in being ruled by the near idiot instead of the far idiot.
I fail entirely to see anything wasteful about that. The near idiot might be held accountable, at least sometimes. The far idiot, never.
In general it is my goal to not be ruled at all. This is unachievable to the extent that I am often better off insofar as others are ruled, and so I accept the liberal, social contractarian tradeoff of maximizing my own liberty only to the extent that this is compatible with maximizing the liberties of others.
Rule by the far idiot, centralization, has advantages too. Or do you prefer to give all powers to your village elder?
Hard to see and control the far idiot, true, but the other side of the coin is, it is harder for him to see and control you. You might be more free with a more distant ruler. Anyway, my point is, it's not a clear-cut easy case either way, and in light of the costs of a brexit and separatism generally, the status quo should win by default.
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