This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
It's not that simple. It's not always clear who is who. Some frequent flyers are coming back because they don't want to go to the shelter. Some are coming back because the ED keeps not treating them because they think the problem is mental illness and they never did a basic work up...
It may be helpful to model this similarly to however you feel about the legal system, letting guilty go free and so on.
The legal system doesn't involve people coming into my house, stealing tens of thousands of dollars, and then the next time they are at the front door I am supposed to let them back in. In fact, most of the more sane jurisdictions allow for pretrial detention of something as serious as a burglary or theft by deception.
The problem is the state blatantly violating freedom of contract by forcing these victims to treat these menaces, and then trying to fudge away the actual cost of the insane policy by smuggling it through various re-distributive schemes as opposed to a budgetary line item.
$100 billion for ER visits from meth heads and heroin addicts is less defensible then "we can't have people dying in the streets (ignore this massive cost we've hidden with subterfuge)"
The problem isn't necessarily your idea (although I'm sure some would take issue with it), the issue is the implementation. How do you decide? Some people with chronic medical illness look like a mental health patient, some mental health patients try repeatedly to get medical care and get ignored... when the issue is "live or die" you have to get things absolutely right.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link