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Watching the disastrous discussion between Zelensky Trump and Vance I wonder how you guys here feel? The whole thing made me nauseous , treating an ally like that is disgusting , unpresidential and certainly geopolitcally inept. The EU-US relationship is not salvagable and at this point I would clap if US bases were emptied and NATO dissolved. Decouple the EU from the US as fast as possible and be independent. There is no way to talk sense into lunatics like Trump and Vance and Putin's control over them somehow seems to be absolute. What an absolute disaster. I know that there will be differing opinions here but at least most of you must agree that this is too much, or not , maybe Russian propaganda really has you convinced that Ukrainians are stealing money and started the war or some nonsense.
Have you ever stepped back and thought “maybe Trump and Vance think the Ukraine situation is foolish without the Putin factor?”
Maybe they think the European leaders are ridiculous without the Putin factor? After all, the Euro leadership is full of very serious people who also happen to be complete and utter morons of the highest order.
I welcome uncoupling America from such people.
Talking about European leaders being morons while you have a dummy like trump as a president is top comedy.
The better way to frame it is that they think they're weak morons. Their ridiculousness comes from the disconnect between their pomposity and seriousness and their inability to manage without America.
The basic Trumpian view is that Trump may be crass but America can at least handle its own business or face the consequences. You get more leeway if you can pay your own tab.
Trump(ism) is all about power or the appearance thereof.
They haven't needed to manage without America because America managed for them in return for supremacy , that is the way of the post war order. The fact that Trump doesn't understand that and is clearly a bully in love with Putin is the main problem. The European politicians are a result of this state of affairs, a weak continent paying protection to someone else.
It's a weak continent that cannot break free of US hegemony, is reluctant to pay part of the toll of said hegemony (maintaining militaries at a certain level of potency) while fantasizing about pulling away and having an independent foreign policy and doing things that both annoy its hegemon (like Germany's sidling up to Russia for energy, which they laughed at Trump for criticizing*) and perhaps even make wars that its hegemon must fight more likely. And is unwilling to shoulder sole responsibility for said wars.
The "deal" left dissatisfaction on both sides because there's no coherent bargain in ink, because Europe is a bunch of different factions. It's essentially a sort of cowardly/lazy slide into American dependence paired with wishful thinking about an independence that would not require reconciling these contradictions.
* What person who acknowledges the supremacy of the another does this btw?
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