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Watching the disastrous discussion between Zelensky Trump and Vance I wonder how you guys here feel? The whole thing made me nauseous , treating an ally like that is disgusting , unpresidential and certainly geopolitcally inept. The EU-US relationship is not salvagable and at this point I would clap if US bases were emptied and NATO dissolved. Decouple the EU from the US as fast as possible and be independent. There is no way to talk sense into lunatics like Trump and Vance and Putin's control over them somehow seems to be absolute. What an absolute disaster. I know that there will be differing opinions here but at least most of you must agree that this is too much, or not , maybe Russian propaganda really has you convinced that Ukrainians are stealing money and started the war or some nonsense.
When you start talking about Putin's control over Vance and Trump you should double check yourself and think "what am I doing here?"
The reason for the antagonism between the US right and Europe and Ukraine right now is not a mystery, and you don't need Putin based conspiracy theories to explain it.
Part 1: Ukraine has been acting as part Democrats international money laundering operations that have been further exposed via the vetting of USAID. They also engaged in an active cover up of those money laundering operations, a but-for, reason that Joe Biden was able to win in 2020. In other words. Zelensky went all in betting on Biden. His son's freedom was in Zelensky's hands after all.
Part 2: Zelensky doubles down on being partisan in 2024, actively campaigning for Biden then Harris.
Part 3: Ukraine is a symptom of longstanding fractures between Europe as a whole and the American right. Europe has been militarily freeloading for almost a century at this point. On top of that the cultural shift is probably even more problematic. The European reaction Vance's freedom of speech speech has been disturbing. There hasn't been an ounce of self reflection, just pure agitprop and condescension. But lets be clear, yes they are the baddies. There are the ones imprisoning grandmas for praying 30 meters from an abortion clinic and dads for calling a Muslim who raped his daughter a rapist.
They'd probably arrested Vance if he was some comedian instead of the VP. The situation isn't just bad. It is really bad.
None of the things you just said has any basis in fact , sorry to say. I know already where you get your info. What does have basis in fact though is the propaganda masterclass the russians have played in your country ( and in europe too of course) , I am done trying to argue on this, if you seriously can support your president's conduct , you are welcome to cut ties with us and leave the continent. Do you think it's a coincidence everyone has started hating you? Maybe you should ask yourself ' Am I acting like an asshole ? '.
Europeans hating Americans is as old as apple pie friend.
The snobbery didn't start with Trump and people's various Putin conspiracy theories either. They were snobbish about GW Bush before Iraq!
If I am Europe and I had the option to side with China to kill and humiliate a large number of American Red Tribers during or post Trump during a conflict, I can't imagine why I would'nt take that opportunity at this point.
...because it's psycopathic?
Any more so than siding with the US in its clash with China? Why? It would be a mutually engaged conflict from a third party POV one side is just as valid as the other all things being equal.
That would be the exact reason except it would be China they are trying to humiliate in this case. No one thinks the US would be fighting for Taiwan for any real existential or even significant material gain. The war would be to humble one side and maintain/shatter US hegemony. I made the distinction of parties because one party being in charge of the hegemony is now probably detrimental to Europe in the short and long term.
Edit: Is it taboo to quote a deleted comment?
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