This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Why does much of the public feel strongly entitled to below-market pricing for certain luxury goods and services? And on the flip side, why do some companies seem to intentionally yield profit to scalpers? Why not dynamically price every premium product/service in today's day and age?
Case study A: Taylor Swift is making the news for selling record amounts of tickets for her upcoming tour. The internet in response has been raging against Live Nation's monopoly, corporate greed, price gouging, bots, scalpers, and Citizens United over both the expensiveness and the lack of availability of her tickets. The brouhaha predates TS--over the past few months, it seems like every time a popular musician launches a tour, the same headlines resurface about greed, price gouging etc.
Case study B: Nvidia's 4000 series graphics cards have been catching flak for their pricing. Same talking points as above, minus the monopoly part because there is real competition in graphics cards.
All this seems silly to me:
Concert tickets, like most everything else, and especially like luxury goods and services, are fundamentally priced by supply and demand. The internet is livid that TS tickets are both expensive and then resold for even more, and directs its anger at TS, LN, and scalpers, arguing that real fans are being cheated somehow. But I don't understand how any of it is actually unfair. Is a concert goer a fake fan if s/he buys from the secondary market at a higher price rather than waiting in 8-hour-long virtual queues the moment tickets go on sale? Super Bowl tickets routinely sell for thousands or tens of thousands. Are your average working class fans being cheated somehow because they cannot afford that? And if the NFL set up a buggy virtual queuing system that allowed people who otherwise cannot afford it buy Super Bowl tickets at a hefty discount (maybe that's exactly how it works. Idk--I've never once thought of trying to buy SB tickets), should society be critical if they then turn around and resell said underpriced tickets for a profit, and then presume to spend the money on goods and services that deliver them more utility? It's not like there is anything particularly virtuous about making sure people who buy tickets to a ball game are committed to attending rather than being free to change their minds or profit from gross pricing inefficiencies.
Nvidia's 3000 series ran into extensive problems with extremely mismatched supply and demand for something like two years, and this of course led to plentiful scalping, which if nothing else is a huge waste of resources considering all the time and money spent on shuffling products to and from middlemen. For the 4000 series, Nvidia smartly priced its products substantially higher than before, which should reduce the mismatch and get inventory to people who want it the most. They can then cut prices and offer discounts once sales slow down in the coming months/years.
Live concerts and premium graphics cards are luxury goods and services. The songs themselves remain extremely affordable through streaming services, and graphics cards released 5 years ago can handle the vast majority of games so long as you do not insist on playing on max settings. It's hard for me to see anyone's rights are deprived because their desire to go to a live concert or play games at the highest settings cannot be met. All the outrage that that either TS or LN is price gouging just sounds so stupid--it's a concert, people. If you don't like the price, don't go. We're not talking about overcharging for gasoline prices when a hurricane is about to hit.
But ultimately, the above is all noise to me. The simplest solution seems to be just to price all luxury goods and services dynamically. Consumers understand that airline and hotel prices are heavily dependent on supply and demand--traveling the Wednesday before Thanksgiving will cost far more than the Wednesday a week later, and flying first will cost substantially more than economy. Hotels on weekends when large conferences are in town will be priced significantly more than otherwise, and suites cost more than standard rooms. There is no scalping that happens for either product because, aside from the TSA, tickets are priced using algorithms that adjust automatically so there is no need to scalp.
So why not do that? Why not dynamically price every luxury good in high demand? Disney does it for its parks. I didn't look too closely into it, but it seems like maybe TS opted into dynamic price this time around, but clearly it's not dynamic enough if there are any scalpers who still make a profit. As for graphics cards, I think the world is better off if Nvidia prereleases the 4000 series online a few weeks ahead of public releases (since traditional retailers can't dynamically price as easily); and during that prerelease period, use algorithms to fully satisfy demand at the market clearing price. Like I mentioned, scalping is a waste of resources and productivity for all, so get rid of it. If Nvidia can retain the vast majority of profits and recapture waste from middlemen shipping and handling, that capital can be redeployed to R&D or paid back in dividends, which then can be invested in other productive enterprises.
I agree with everything here but if you're looking for an answer to the outrage it's very simple. They want something they can't have and are upset about it. There isn't some coherent and well thought out world view behind the outrage. They are simply covetous and they channel it into moral outrage because it's cathartic.
When it didn't rain this season and your tribe needed to raid the tribe next door or starve it is handy to be able to channel covetousness into murderous rage. Accusing them of hexing your fields isn't a claim Antje is going to bother formalizing.
This is not at all true. People don't like scalpers because they are jerks, plain and simple. They are reducing the available supply at the original price and selling it at a higher price just to gouge people. I hate scalpers who scalp things I don't want just as much as I hate scalpers who scalp things I do want.
The original supply at the original price was already too small for most people to get a ticket. The scalpers are redistributing tickets among the group who would've originally bought tickets, and extracting some surplus for the redistribution, but the same number of people still end up with tickets.
Right, but at higher prices than they would have otherwise had to pay. That sounds like a jerk thing to me.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link