This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
If the apartments fall apart, then they can simply move into the ghost cities - problem solves itself.
Seriously, these things may be true to a certain extent but real estate is not the defining feature of the economy. Production is the defining feature of the economy, production of goods. All else rests on top of production. There are no services without goods, even prostitutes need condoms and lingerie...
China is good at cost-efficient production, therefore it follows that their economy is strong regardless of the situation in real estate or whatever else. If the Soviet Union was the biggest producer of manufactured goods on the planet, bigger than the next 10 combined, then it would still be here today. Soviet production was weak, nobody ever cared to tariff Soviet exports because nobody in their right mind wanted to buy a Soviet car, television or anything but oil and minerals.
This is the reverse of the truth. We in the West hear nothing but bad news about China. We hear about protests in Hong Kong, genocide of the uyghurs, trouble with the Dalai Lama, pollution, liveleak industrial accidents, people getting locked in their homes for COVID, people getting their organs stolen, suppression of Christianity, Social Credit (which is blown out of proportion), repression of the LGBT, backdoors in Tiktok and all other Chinese products... and this shadow banking crisis that has been about to destroy the Chinese economy for the last 10, 15, 20 years. I was taught about it in school.
There are positives as well as negatives, the media is only interested in fostering hatred and contempt, preparing people psychologically for war with China. It's just like the 'Iran is 6 months, 3 weeks, 5 milliseconds away from getting the Bomb!' narrative, fearmongering and warmongering. They want us to hate China and also think they'll be easy to defeat, to manufacture consent for war. But in reality China is a very strong country and we need to be more realistic. War may be inevitable but we shouldn't go in half-cocked, assuming our enemies are made of tofu.
The ghost cities are often comprised of the same materials…
Housing is close to one third of china’s GDP. So, sure it’s not the only feature but it’s a huge, gigantic feature of the Chinese economy
Yes they do have a great, huge manufacturing sector. They are still fairly a poor country on a per capita basis, which means threats to their economy loom larger for the average citizen. The Chinese only tolerate their overlords because they are slowly getting richer, but that is precisely when the risk of revolution is greatest is when the citizenry gets a taste of freedom. I think if their economy suddenly stopped growing and stagnated it would be quite devastating for them, far more than for America
As for news, I think we get fairly large amount of positive visions of China all the time online thanks in large part to a combination of wumaos and anti American feelings among internet extremists, who love to throw up glittery pictures of neon Chinese cities at night. -And - Wow look at their rail network! And their drone swarm shows, and drone delivery!
Meanwhile military leaders are getting purged for filling missiles with water instead of fuel. It’s really hard to gauge how strong they are when they haven’t fought a war in four decades (and lost all the wars they did fight)
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link