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PaperclipPerfector  3mo ago (text post)   33103 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of April 14, 2025

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"Jews are pernicious, they should have been gassed, and Hitler wasn't such a bad dude, but that doesn't mean that you should hate them"

Whose opinion is this?

The first two are the opinions of people that Cooper doesn't block. Since he is blocking views he finds unacceptable, he must find these acceptable, or at least, not beyond the pale.

The third seems to be Cooper's own view, unless his article on how Hitler was misunderstood turns out to be an article about how Hitler was even worse than people think.

I don't see the reason for the one sentence strawman. To reply with a one sentence steelman of Cooper: 'Here are historical circumstance, here's why they came to be, here's the horrible outcome, here's what could have gone differently. By the way, don't hate people.'

I think the issue rests more with people who are unwilling to let go of a pseudo religious otherizing ahistorical narrative, similar to Douglas Murray on his recent Joe Rogan debate, rather than people forming opinions that exist outside the post war consensus.

I mean, I agree, it sure isn't a stable equilibrium for the church to sit idly by as heresy is spread. But I don't see why anyone should be concerned with the church.

To reply with a one sentence steelman of Cooper: 'Here are historical circumstance, here's why they came to be, here's the horrible outcome, here's what could have gone differently. By the way, don't hate people.'

It's a curious steelman that fully abstracts away all the details of the claims and the facts. Are we talking about the JQ or why a project went over budget?

I mean, I agree, it sure isn't a stable equilibrium for the church to sit idly by as heresy is spread. But I don't see why anyone should be concerned with the church.

And now I've fully lost sight of how this metaphor corresponds to reality at all.

We are talking about Darryll Cooper. I don't see how the steelman is abstracting anything relevant as Cooper, in his own words, describes himself and his viewpoint similarly, though at greater length. What claims and facts you refer to or their relevance, I am missing.

And now I've fully lost sight of how this metaphor corresponds to reality at all.

I'm referring to the paragraph written above, where I note that people like Douglas Murray take issue with the viewpoint of people like Daryll Cooper, who allow themselves to exist outside the post war consensus orthodoxy with regards to WW2. I assumed you were in a similar boat to Murray, and that when you referred to Coopers viewpoint as not being a 'stable equilibrium' you were referring to a similar contention, just relating to the JQ, not WW2. I'm happy to hear where I misread you and what you meant by 'stable equilibrium'.

Cooper, in his own words, describes himself and his viewpoint similarly, though at greater length

How much of that is cognitive dissonance?

By "(un)stable equilibrium", what I meant is that if one, like Cooper seems to, admits that the following may be true, or at least are not obviously wrong:

  • The Holocaust was a good thing
  • Jews run the media (and this is bad)
  • Jews run the government (and this is bad)
  • Jews have split loyalties (and this is bad)
  • Hitler was not that bad

Then I don't see how you can draw the line just there, and go no further to reach the obvious conclusion, which is:

  • Jews are bad
  • Jews are to be hated

And yet he seems to be in this position. I am not saying that he necessarily believes all the things in the first list, but he feels that they are at least understandable or positions that a reasonable person may hold. However, he feels that a reasonable person may not hold the positions that are a natural consequence of those opinions. This doesn't seem tenable to me.

Cooper has never said that the Holocaust was a good thing, or anything even close to that. And he never said that Hitler wasn’t that bad either. It sounds like your knowledge of Cooper’s opinions comes entirely from Bluesky character assassination tweets.

Cooper has never said that the Holocaust was a good thing, or anything even close to that.

I included this in my comment in the hopes of heading off this exact misunderstanding.

I am not saying that he necessarily believes all the things in the first list, but he feels that they are at least understandable or positions that a reasonable person may hold.

And he never said that Hitler wasn’t that bad either.

Indeed, for that we'll need to wait for the forthcoming "Hitler was misunderstood" article.

It sounds like your knowledge of Cooper’s opinions comes entirely from Bluesky character assassination tweets.

You overestimate me. My knowledge of Cooper's opinions comes entirely from this thread and one or two other threads about him on this forum.

I am not saying that he necessarily believes all the things in the first list, but he feels that they are at least understandable or positions that a reasonable person may hold.

But not only does he not say the Holocaust was a good thing, he equates believing that it was with the hatefulness he won't tolerate. The only mention of the Holocaust in his post was already quoted above:

...so those 15,000 are just the nakedly hateful, the-Holocaust-isn’t-real-but-I-wish-it-was people.

Are you taking him so literally as to be saying that both boxes (denying the Holocaust and approving of the Holocaust) always need to be checked before he'll consider blocking someone, but he has no problem with either view taken in isolation?

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