f3zinker
Its A/B testing all the way down
1yr ago·Edited 1yr ago
My mental model of wine (as a wine troglodyte)
Is that the quality of wine (or anything of subjective taste) is logarithmically related to the price. With some large error bars that handwave at personal preference. And the quality is proportional to price not because you get what you pay for, but you don't get what you don't pay for.
Anyways, the above is obvious. What I'm finding surprising is that so many people here are defending blatant status signaling as anything but. To those of you getting mad at the notion that someone might not see the appeal of 200 USD wine, do you really derive 10x the satisfaction than a 20 USD wine? If yes, is that satisfaction in your taste buds or knowing that you can spend 200 USD on fermented grapes?
I'm also deeply annoyed at the notion some people have that complexity (number of differentiable details) = quality. If you mix cheap but different wines, you probably get a new wine that is at most twice as complex, perhaps even more complex than a much more expensive wine. And a professional sommelier might even be able to parse that complexity, does that lead to the conclusion its better?
But I suppose status signaling isn't really effective if the signal is not modulated. The subtler the signal the better?
Yeah Yeah "I know who is the better painter in the set {Monet, A 3 year old}.
I just don't think there is enough bandwidth (and error bars small enough and instruments accurate enough) in most matters of taste to really conclude that one preference suggests you are more high-falutin than the other. Literature might be the exception not the rule.
I default to vacuous status signaling until proven otherwise when I come across arguments of this form.
I’m an American, and wine in the U.S. is generally more expensive than in Europe (because wine produced abroad and sold retail must be brought in by a licensed American distributor and these middle-men don’t run charities, and it is far more common that European producers have owned the land their vineyards are on since before anyone now working it was born). Just my opinion, but I find the best bang for the buck is around $35-40 if you also have a large wine fridge in which to age bottles for multiple years (the quick requirements are no UV light, store around 54-55 degrees Fahrenheit, keep away from significant vibration). Helps to have enough storage that you can cut down on the per-bottle shipping costs and lock in bulk discounts by ordering by the case (12 bottles).
Wine, whether corked or screw top, continues to slowly oxidize in the bottle. Kept at proper temperature the aging can alter a wine’s flavor in a desirable way. Not kept at proper temperature, it will wreck the wine.
Different wines/varietals benefit from aging differently. Some wines are generally considered best young, like a New Zealand Sauv Blanc, as people are usually looking for bright acidity when selecting one. As a rule of thumb reds benefit from longer aging more than whites. But you can age whites, too. My favorite bottle I’ve consumed was a 10-year-old white Bordeaux.
And within reds, those with higher tannin benefit from longer aging. I like to tuck Willamette Valley Pinot Noir away for five years. But, you can age California Cab Sauv, red Bordeaux, Cotes du Rhone, etc. for a decade plus.
And none of the above is to say you need to age wine after purchase. Here’s a good video looking at different vintages from the same wine:
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Notes -
My mental model of wine (as a wine troglodyte)
Is that the quality of wine (or anything of subjective taste) is logarithmically related to the price. With some large error bars that handwave at personal preference. And the quality is proportional to price not because you get what you pay for, but you don't get what you don't pay for.
Anyways, the above is obvious. What I'm finding surprising is that so many people here are defending blatant status signaling as anything but. To those of you getting mad at the notion that someone might not see the appeal of 200 USD wine, do you really derive 10x the satisfaction than a 20 USD wine? If yes, is that satisfaction in your taste buds or knowing that you can spend 200 USD on fermented grapes?
I'm also deeply annoyed at the notion some people have that complexity (number of differentiable details) = quality. If you mix cheap but different wines, you probably get a new wine that is at most twice as complex, perhaps even more complex than a much more expensive wine. And a professional sommelier might even be able to parse that complexity, does that lead to the conclusion its better?
But I suppose status signaling isn't really effective if the signal is not modulated. The subtler the signal the better?
Yeah Yeah "I know who is the better painter in the set {Monet, A 3 year old}.
As is the argument @FiveHourMarathon is making.
I just don't think there is enough bandwidth (and error bars small enough and instruments accurate enough) in most matters of taste to really conclude that one preference suggests you are more high-falutin than the other. Literature might be the exception not the rule.
I default to vacuous status signaling until proven otherwise when I come across arguments of this form.
You’re right that it is generally logarithmic.
I’m an American, and wine in the U.S. is generally more expensive than in Europe (because wine produced abroad and sold retail must be brought in by a licensed American distributor and these middle-men don’t run charities, and it is far more common that European producers have owned the land their vineyards are on since before anyone now working it was born). Just my opinion, but I find the best bang for the buck is around $35-40 if you also have a large wine fridge in which to age bottles for multiple years (the quick requirements are no UV light, store around 54-55 degrees Fahrenheit, keep away from significant vibration). Helps to have enough storage that you can cut down on the per-bottle shipping costs and lock in bulk discounts by ordering by the case (12 bottles).
I thought that these days wine doesn't gain much by aging. You're meant to drink it soon. In fact, if you keep it for years, it'll go bad.
Wine, whether corked or screw top, continues to slowly oxidize in the bottle. Kept at proper temperature the aging can alter a wine’s flavor in a desirable way. Not kept at proper temperature, it will wreck the wine.
Different wines/varietals benefit from aging differently. Some wines are generally considered best young, like a New Zealand Sauv Blanc, as people are usually looking for bright acidity when selecting one. As a rule of thumb reds benefit from longer aging more than whites. But you can age whites, too. My favorite bottle I’ve consumed was a 10-year-old white Bordeaux.
And within reds, those with higher tannin benefit from longer aging. I like to tuck Willamette Valley Pinot Noir away for five years. But, you can age California Cab Sauv, red Bordeaux, Cotes du Rhone, etc. for a decade plus.
And none of the above is to say you need to age wine after purchase. Here’s a good video looking at different vintages from the same wine:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ulhu86IIkt4
(Any wine you plan to drink within six to nine months after purchase will be just fine at room temperature in your home.)
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