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In lieu of the normal SCOTUS Mottezins... wake up, honey, the Culture War went to court again. Arguments for Mahmoud v. Taylor just dropped (PDF). A less oppressive SCOTUSblog write up here.
Obligatory disclaimer that I do not know anything. The gist of the case:
I know we have some skeptics of "woke" curriculum, so for a probably not unbiased overview of the material, BECKET, the religious freedom legal advocacy non-profit backing the plaintiffs, provides examples in an X thread. They also provide a dropbox link to some of the material in question. In one tweet they claim:
The Justices had read the books in question. Kavanaugh acknowledged Schoenfeld, representing Montgomery County, had "a tough case to argue".
The county asserted that mandatory exposure to material, like a teacher reading a book out loud, is not coercion (or a burden?) that violates a free exercise of religion. Sotomayor seemed to support this position. Schoenfeld, arguing for Montgomery County, said these books that are part of a curriculum that preach uncontroversial values like civility and inclusivity. Alito, skeptical, said Uncle Bobby's Wedding had a clear moral message beyond civility or inclusivity.
The liberal justices were interested in clarification on what Baxter, arguing for the parents, thought the limits were to. What limits are placed on parents with regards to religious opt-outs? Kagan was worried about the opening of the floodgates. Sotomayor drew a line to parental objection to 'biographical material about women who have been recognized for achievements outside of their home' and asked if the opt-out should extend to material on stuff like inter-faith marriage. Baxter didn't give well-defined lines, but said nah, we figured this out.
Sincerity of belief is one requirement for compelled opt-outs. The belief can't be "philosophical" or "political" it has to a sincere religious belief. Age was discussed as another consideration. Material that may offend religious belief to (the parents of?) a 16 year old does not apply the same sort of burden as it does to a 5 year old, because a 16 year old is more capable of being "merely exposed" rather than "indoctrinated". A word Eric Baxter, arguing for the parents, used several times and Justice Barrett used twice.
Eric Baxter also stabbed at the district's position that there was ever an administrative issue at all. Chief Justice Roberts agreed and seemed to question whether the school's actions were pretext. Baxter had one exchange (pg. 40-42 pdf) with Kavanaugh who, "mystified as a life-long resident of the county [as to] how it came to this", asked for background.
Baxter also pointed at ongoing opt-out polices in neighboring counties and different ones in Montgomery itself. He clarified the relevance of Wisconsin v. Yoder where it was found strict scrutiny should be applied to protect religious freedom. One example of an ongoing opt-out policy in Montgomery allowed parents to opt their children out of material that showed the prophet Mohammed.
Thots and Q's:
The eternal fight over what the state uses to fill children's minds in a land of compulsory attendance is main conflict, even if this legal question is one of what a compromise should look given religious freedoms.
It can do so in a few different ways and avoid a trip to SCOTUS. I support preaching civility and inclusivity to children. There are thousands children's books that preach these things without drag queens or bondage. In an ideal world, knowledge of and tolerance for queer people can also be taught without, what I would call, the excess. Schools can also program curriculum to account for opt-outs when it comes to touchy subjects.
Sex education can be crammed into 1 hour classes for a week of the year. This allows parents to opt-out without placing an unmanageable burden on the administration. A curriculum that requires teachers to read a number of controversial book at least 5 times each a year is a curriculum designed to, intentionally or not, make opt-outs onerous. In this case it was so onerous and so controversial that Montgomery was compelled to change the policy. Which is an administrative failure even if one doesn't believe it to be ideologically motivated.
I've seen it argued both ways. That outlets notoriously don't link cases or share case names, but in this case the plaintiffs -- a mixture of Muslim, Christian, Jewish parents -- the absence is notable. Were this an evangelical push we could expect some evangelical bashing.
Both Gorsuch and our resident kinetic-action-advocators are claiming that Pride Puppy is exposing young children to leather fetishism. This would be outrageous if true. But, uh, did anyone posting in this thread bother to check if it is?
The wordlist has 300+ words on it, ranging from 'alligator' and 'apple' to 'zebra print' and 'zipper.' While I don't doubt that the depraved adult minds here are capable of imagining sexualized depictions of the 'carrot' or 'cucumber,' the book depicts a family making a salad.
Likewise, while it's easy to imagine situations where 'leather' or 'underwear' are shown inappropriately, it is also easy to imagine pretty innocuous situations. For example, leather sofas and jackets are common furniture and clothing, respectively. Kids universally learn about underwear in the nonsexual context of potty training and personal hygiene, and comic book heroes have been drawn as-if wearing briefs over their pants for longer than anyone in this thread has been alive. The Captain Underpants series is a 20 year old media empire with more than 50 million book sales in the US and major feature film adaptations.
I have no doubt that some vegans are offended by the former, and I can imagine some schoolmarm disapproving of Captain Underpants specifically or maybe even all comics generally. Nevertheless, the hyper-hyper-majority of parents, regardless of religion or sexual mores, have no problem with any of the above. So, is Pride Puppy's depiction of leather and underwear a bunch of puppy-players, leather daddies, and dudes in jocks, or is it people wearing leather and undies in ways that would be perfectly appropriate for a Halloween costume at an event with kids present?
In a shocking twist of events, a 40 year old children's book publishing house did not decide it was a good idea to teach 4 year olds about puppy play. Instead, the only depictions of 'leather' are a lesbian in a motorcycle jacket waving at a dog and people wearing leather shoes. The only depiction of 'underwear' is a gay guy wearing green briefs over his blue leggings, with all the sexual energy of Aquaman. If you'd like to evaluate for yourself: the content in question.
If one's actual objections are "don't normalize Pride marches," "don't normalize homosexuality," "don't normalize trans," etc. it's possible to have a discussion on the merits of those issues. But it's tremendously dishonest to cloak one's actual objection to the former with trumped-up talk of introducing 4 year olds to BDSM, when – at least in the examples provided – that's simply not happening.
'Nutpicking' isn't exactly the peak of good rhetoric, but I hope we can hold ourselves to the standard of, at the very least, finding real nuts to pick. This is an internet forum, after all! We needn't act like Supreme Court Justices – we can do 2 minutes worth of basic fact checking.
He fumbled through a rolodex. That's funny! I don't think it's implausible for one of the characters in Pride Puppy to be a sex positive, sex worker. We can make that canon. People latching onto the exchange are not being fair to Gorsuch with the out-of-context snippet. For the purpose of maximizing honesty here is that exchange:
There is no 'BDSM bondage' that I could find in Pride Puppy, but there is a "drag queen" in a word search exercise at the end of the book and clearly a couple illustrated in the pages. They also arbitrarily slot (drag) queen under 'Q' instead of 'D', because they didn't have enough Q's.
Not all of the books from curriculum are in the dropbox link:
Pride Puppy (Pre-K), Uncle Bobby's Wedding (K-5), Intersection Allies: We Make Room for All (K-5), My Rainbow (K-5), Prince & Knight (K-5), Love, Violet (K-5), Born Ready: The True Story of a Boy Named Penelope (K-5), Cattywampus (Grade 6-), The Best at It (Grade 6-), Ivy Aberdeen's Letter to the World (Grade 7-), Hurricane Child (7-), The Stonewall Riots: Coming Out in the Streets (8-), Troublemaker for Justice: The Story of Bayard Rusin (8-)
We are having those conversations right here in this thread! Most comments that do not claim there is pornography in Pride Puppy.
There is a reasonable association from the introduction of "lace", "leather", and drag queens -- concepts that we adults are familiar with and associate with sex -- to queer identity and ideology. Then either from or to sexual identity and sexual orientation. To suggest these are isolated concepts unrelated to sexuality stretches my credulity. Sanitizing something for children doesn't make it about something else. These are children's stories. Most have fairly normal lessons in some way, but nearly all are in the setting of LGBTQ+ acceptance. In the case of Born Ready: The Trust Story of a Boy Named Penelope trans ID.
Bobby Goes To The Single's Resort in Cancun could be a story sanitized for the consumption of 5 year olds. It can avoid nudity, be made wholesome, and even have a standard children's moral to the story. After, Bobby Hangs Out With El Farrio the Pick-up Artist. The last in the series: Bobby Goes to Leningrad. Bobby gets cold in Leningrad. When he feels better, he learns how to spell, sews his own jacket, and when he gets hungry he eats his evil neighbor.
I should know better than to ask "what fresh hell is this?" because something new always pops up.
The only rationale I can see for having a wordsearch option at the end of Pride Puppy (with ordinary words like apple, baseball, coffee cup) is to pretend that this is educational rather than indoctrination. The kids are learning to spell and to identify words, so this is learning English!
I'm inclined to agree with Gorsuch here, a phrase I never thought I'd use: why is this in the English language curriculum rather than the human sexuality curriculum if they need to have it be a Pride parade with lesbians in leather jackets and drag queens and rainbow flags? If they just wanted a spelling book, why have it be a Pride parade? It is about teaching the kids that it's all normal, there are no divergent opinions on this, all that you see there is right and good, and heavens no there would never be anything for adults only in such a parade!
It's only "indoctrination" when you don't agree with the outcome. When I was in elementary school in the '90s. There was plenty of material in reading class that would have been considered indoctrination in a prior era among those of a certain persuasion. A biography of Dr. King comes to mind; why is this being discussed in reading class and not social studies? What about all the other stuff we read that subtly or not so subtly tried to convey the message that it wasn't okay to judge people based on race? What about the story about the girl whose parents met while her father was stationed in Japan? Is this nothing more than indoctrination about interracial relationships and multiculturalism (the story itself was about dating where the dad learned to use chopsticks and the mother learned to eat with a fork, and why they switch between both at home)? For that matter, we also read other stuff about American history in reading class; is the story about a Revolutionary soldier not indoctrination? Shouldn't this be part of social studies class?
The crux of the matter is that the normalization of same-sex relationships is a culture war battle that the right fought and lost, and some of the losers are clinging to the last viable paths of opposition in a desperate attempt to reverse the tide. The problem with these books isn't that they're age-inappropriate due to sexual content, it's that they're presenting same-sex relationships in a manner that isn't sufficiently condemnatory. That the plaintiffs have to resort to bad faith references to leather is proof of this—it's presented in a way to make one think that the book is referring to bondage or gay leather boy culture, when in reality it's a picture of a woman in a leather jacket, which picture would be unobjectionable in a book about anything else.
Yes. And this is why my very tepid and grudging "okay sure civil marriage is already a hot steaming mess, why not let the gays get in on the trauma?" acceptance has cooled even more over the years.
"This will never affect you". "Don't like gay marriage? Then don't get gay married!" "This makes no difference to your life at all, it just means we can marry the people we love".
Well that was a heap of horse manure, even worse - at least you can use manure on your roses. This, on the other hand, has indeed led to "we will fight and die on the hill of having, in the school library for 12 year olds up, a book that mentions in passing 'hey kids, if you can't pay for your cross-sex hormones, peddling your ass is one way of getting money for it'."
Someone invent a time machine so we can go back, because clearly we weren't nearly repressive enough!
A picture not just of a woman, but of a lesbian. At a Pride Parade. Where wearing leather has particular connotations. Seems like there is a lesbian leather subculture out there, and it's not just about "wearing a leather jacket and cheering on the parade". Context is important; a woman in a bikini at the beach is one thing, a woman in a bikini on the beach posing for her glamour shot is quite different in intent and how it is supposed to be read.
I think eventually there may come a split, the 'family-friendly' type of Pride parades will become the norm as the public face of the LGBT+ movement, where there are marchers from everyone including the cops, and floats, and corporate sponsorship, and it is just "waving the pretty coloured flags and cheering". The kinky elements, the overtly sexual ones, the remains of the original Pride, will go their own way or have their own separate areas where it's understood you don't bring the baby stroller or the four year olds or the normies.
Ultimately all that is for the movement to sort out for itself. Am I saying "no leather at Pride"? No. Am I saying there shouldn't be kink and it should all be family-friendly? No, because it's none of my business. If parents want to bring their kids to the parade, with the attendant risk of them seeing something they maybe shouldn't, that's on the parents because it's their job to raise their kids.
Which means that there are also parents who don't and won't bring their kids to the parade, even the family-friendly version, and that is their right too, because it is their job as to how they raise their kids. So why the necessity to have books like Pride Puppy in schools? That's going beyond tolerance and into "we're making all this normal, including the bits that go over the heads of the kids but which adults recognise, and you can't stop us or do anything about it".
You want to teach four year olds not to be bullies and not to pick on other kids or adults just for being different? Knock yourself out. You want to slip in the idea of leather dykes to four year olds and a different kind of Pride puppy? Yeah, no. They can wait till they're fourteen. Or sixteen. Or never, to find out about that.
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