site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 21, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

13
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

International Culture War: Seven European World Cup captains ditch One Love arm band under FIFA pressure

So basically: European countries decide on a face-saving, performative gesture while still going to the Qatar World Cup, despite it being a more repressive, anti-LGBT country.

Then, when they actually get to Qatar, FIFA - I guess to stay on the right side of Qatar and any future traditionalist cultures that want to bid for a World Cup- pulls the rug out from under them and starts threatening sporting sanctions if they do wear a "one love" arm band, turning it into an actually meaningful symbol of defiance if they do wear it.

They don't though, they fold.

"As national federations, we can’t put our players in a position where they could face sporting sanctions including bookings, so we have asked the captains not to attempt to wear the armbands in FIFA World Cup games."

I guess I shouldn't be shocked; they folded when they went so why not fold again? But I am a bit surprised that they weren't even allowed this irrelevant gesture, and by how far FIFA is apparently going to help its patrons.

Well, this is the sort of thing we should expect from an exchange in culture (which everyone keeps telling us will enrich us). What did they expect? That it would always go one way and globalization meant that everyone would inevitably fold to all Western moral presumptions? It's a highway, not a one-way street. Moneyed Third-Worlders will push back to maintain their ways.

Meanwhile, in actual meaningful gestures:

https://twitter.com/borzou/status/1594678318397362176?

Iran national football club stand mournfully and refuse to sing national anthem of clerical regime during first match against England at World Cup 2022 in act of protest against Khamenei henchmen’s violence

Huge risk for these guys. Regime has issued arrest warrants for football legends who have spoken out against it, and has arrested famous actresses just for appearing without hijab in public. How will they be treated when they return to Tehran to a heroes welcome at the airport?