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Why are you pretending you think this is about clothing? That it is simply a multicoloured strip of fabric signifying nothing? Or that your issue is their fashion policing being rude? You aren't stripping away ephemera to get down to the essence of the debate, you are stripping away the essence of the debate so you can get down to the ephemera.
I'm not pretending that this is about clothing. Clearly there's symbolism in the rainbow armband, I'm happy to acknowledge that.
I'm feeling like this debate isn't going anywhere, it mostly seems to be you making uncharitable assumptions about me. If you want to know anything concrete I'm happy to answer you, but I've stated my position and I don't see that you have argued against it.
Yeah I have something concrete I'd like from you - evidence that this conversation has been mostly me making uncharitable assumptions about you. I have made a single assumption - that you are resorting to sophistry on this topic because you know the position you back is contrived. I'll admit it is uncharitable, but it also seems more accurate now than it did when I made it, and it seemed pretty accurate then.
But ok, only 50% of this debate has been you making uncharitable assumptions about me. It feels like more when you are on the receiving end.
And it continuous. Seriously man, try to show some kindness.
Anyway, since this seems to be only meta-discussion and no actual discussion at all, I'm out.
A) assuming you are American is not uncharitable lol, thinking it is is not very kind.
B) I wasn't assuming you were American, I was saying that demanding foreign countries have the same values you do is American. Also not kind, but we have the reputation for a reason.
C) charity is not feigning obliviousness to bad arguments, that just gives control of every conversation to its worst actors. I laid out my position clearly and you changed the topic - first by... ignoring the symbolism (I guess, if you weren't pretending) and then by acting like I won't let you have a conversation about the topic because I called out one bad argument.
It is fine if you don't want to talk about it any longer - just don't reply, nobody will think less of you. But don't act like I won't, because I am happy to. But you have to explain why the Qatari should allow a symbol of support for behaviour they have criminalised.
Literally my first post:
That's not an argument, it's a cliche. Yeah good idea, they shouldn't do it, but guess what? They have! It's too late to call it off now sadly. So in your best American accent, what should the Qatari do now? Give up their laws because Fifa said they could host the world cup?
Howdie partnar! Did you know now that them Qataris don't have no laws against wearin' that rainbow flag? They should just let them fans wear them rainbows and not start no trouble about it! Now I recon this is what mister Nasser Al-Khater, World Cup chief executive, promised them fans back in ol' 2020, so he should be the big man and stick to his words I say. Especially since there's no law against it and so.
Now I don't know now if this all is needed, but I recon' if them Qataris needs to save their faces, they can just say how their Allah made that rainbow as his covenant, amen, and that them tourists are all mighty pleased to celebrate the lords work.
Flawless American accent, and those are good ideas for a peaceful path forward, but they ignore the realpolitiks on the ground - Arabic Muslims have been watching the world embrace homosexuality for the past few decades and telling each other it is an American plot to make the world in our image. They will not pretend it's a symbol of God's love, because they know it is not.
What about if we reverse it - over the past few years there have been a number of controversies in various sports when a Christian or Muslim player - often from Africa or the Middle East - refused to wear a rainbow flag themed jersey or armband. Generally the argument from the pro lgbt side at the time was they should respect their host nation's values and do as they are told. What did you think?
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