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Culture War Roundup for the week of November 21, 2022

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I have no idea what that means; I assume that there is some sort of typo.

Possible grammar brainfart. You said that expressing the idea that "Gender Queer" is not dangerous would mark you as a pedophile. I don't see the word "pedophile" being used here, to describe people expressing that belief.

Then you need to read more carefully; that is exactly what this discussion is about.

Can you help me out? I see him discussing a specific type of behavior, which seems to be unique to the left. I don't see him saying the left is uniquely bad in general.

  1. Again, you clearly do not understand what the term means.
  1. I am not talking about specific persons; I am talking about a general phenomenon. I note that you have not claimed that it does not exist, but instead have resorted to a silly ad hominem argument.

These two points are contradictory. If I misunderstood you, believing that you had specific people in mind but are avoiding addressing them directly, then I understand the term, and used it correctly.

And your evidence that she was referring to his actions when she was over 18 is what, exactly?

You know what it is, because you read the article where this is clearly stated:

Wood, now 33 and a star of HBO’s Westworld, has said that she met shock-rocker Manson when she was 18 and he was 36.

I don't see the word "pedophile" being used here, to describe people expressing that belief.

Well, when I google "gender queer" and "pedophile" I get many examples

Can you help me out? I see him discussing a specific type of behavior, which seems to be unique to the left.

That is precisely what I meant by "my out group is uniquely bad"

then I understand the term, and used it correctly.

No, you aren't, but there is no point in discussing it anymore.

Wood, now 33 and a star of HBO’s Westworld, has said that she met shock-rocker Manson when she was 18 and he was 36.

Thank you, I missed that, but why not point that out in the first place?

More importantly, this really doesn't help you much, because even Wood is using "grooming" to refer to an attempt to prep someone to consent to sex. So, if I say, "Joe wants kids to read book X because he is a groomer," am I not saying that Joe is trying to prep kids to have sex with him, and hence that he is sexually attracted to kids?

Well, when I google "gender queer" and "pedophile" I get many examples

Oh. The sandwiching of that statement between references to "people here" made me think you also meant this is how people here would react.

That is precisely what I meant by "my out group is uniquely bad"

Ok. If I said "uniquely bad", I'd mean that the level of badness on the part of that group is higher than all other groups I can think of, not that there is a certain type of bad behavior that is unique to it, but is compensated by bad behavior on the parts of other groups, that are unique to them.

If we go with your definition, I disagree with the statement "OTOH claims that 'my out group is uniquely bad' are generally deserving of great skepticism, for obvious reasons". Different groups act differently, there's nothing surprising about it, and people should not be skeptical of a claim like that.

Thank you, I missed that, but why not point that out in the first place?

I suppose I didn't think someone would just skim the article looking for the first thing that they think would disprove what I said, and come back here to call me dishonest? Why did you call me dishonest instead of just asking why I thought she was an adult?

More importantly, this really doesn't help you much

Sure it does! You were insisting the term groomer only refers to pedophiles, and now we agree it's flexible enough to cover sex between adults. We're not that far from agreeing that psy-opping adolescent girls into getting double mastectomies might also be grooming.

I suppose I didn't think someone would just skim the article looking for the first thing that they think would disprove what I said, and come back here to call me dishonest? Why did you call me dishonest instead of just asking why I thought she was an adult?

I didn't skim the article looking for evidence that would disprove what you said; I in fact looked for evidence that supported what you said, because I assumed that is why you linked to it.

We're not that far from agreeing that psy-opping adolescent girls into getting double mastectomies might also be grooming.

No, we are nowhere near that, unless someone does that in order to get them to have sex with them. That would be grooming, but so too would be giving them a tootsie pop in order to get them to have sex with him. Or giving them advice with the intent to get them to have sex with him. It is the intent to convince someone to have sex which makes it grooming.

I didn't skim the article looking for evidence that would disprove what you said; I in fact looked for evidence that supported what you said, because I assumed that is why you linked to it.

If that was the case, why did you call me dishonest instead of just asking why I thought she was an adult?

No, we are nowhere near that, unless someone does that in order to get them to have sex with them. That would be grooming, but so too would be giving them a tootsie pop in order to get them to have sex with him.

If the "pedophilia" part of the definition can be relaxed, why not the "for sex" part, especially since we're talking about minors in the latter case? It's not hard to find pre-"ok, groomer" articles that don't restrict "grooming" to sexual behavior? For example:

Insisting that grooming has never been used to describe non-sexual behavior seems like literal gaslighting to me.

Yes, I am sure it has sometimes been used in other ways. But when used in the context of teaching children about sex, do you really, truly, think it is meant in those ways? Because that is what we are talking about.

Yes. Especially when psy-opping adolescent girls into double mastectomies is a big part of what we're discussing.