site banner
PaperclipPerfector  5mo ago (text post)   32839 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 26, 2025

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

7
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Something really amusing regarding Malfoy given your mention of 50 Shades, which was Twilight fanfiction with the serial numbers filed off (meaning the author changed the names to be allowed to publish it as original fiction). There's a Draco/Hermione story that is also being published.

The nearly 16 million individual downloads of the author’s works; the 84,000 likes on Archive of Our Own, aka AO3, where it was first published in 2018; the 19 languages to which it’s been translated; the 71,000 ratings on Goodreads; the 470 million collective TikTok views. The TikTok readers (aka BookTokers) are especially vexed: People are clipping together their emotional states before and after reading — going into it excited and chipper, and finishing with red-rimmed eyes and stifling sobs.

And the latest flick of the wand: SenLinYu, 32, has leveraged all this into a book deal, a reimagined version of “Manacled” that will leave the characters and world of “Harry Potter” behind.

By 2025, the enemies-to-lovers romance centered around Hermione Granger and Draco Malfoy will undergo a transformation to become a novel called “Alchemised,” Sen announced Feb. 5. It’ll be a dark fantasy with new characters, published by Del Rey at Penguin Random House in the U.S. and Michael Joseph in the U.K.

The upshot here is that female romance fandom commonly takes franchise characters and smushes them together in transformative works. This is VERY true of Avengers fandom, but a lot of it is slash, because Marvel/Disney are never going to let Cap and Bucky bang onscreen.

Personally, I'm not particularly interested in romance in superhero movies. It feels shoehorned-in.

See also The Mortal Instruments, which was adapted from the author's earlier Draco Trilogy.

In a sane world, writers could just publish their fanfic commercially and send a royalty check to the copyright holder. But we do not live in a sane world.

Cassandra Cla(i)re was well-known in the fandom space. https://fanlore.org/wiki/Cassandra_Claire

I missed my chance to finish reading Manacled then, probably a good thing. The work is basically an infohazard as discussed downthread in my link, totally alien to the male sensibility. And it holds such power over them too, such incredible desire. Who the hell translated it into WELSH?

Needs industrial-grade shaming. Whatever invective and scorn was poured on the 'I got sent to another world and have sexy adventures with Biccus Tittus and her sisters: now with more hot dark elves' genre should be returned against these people. Hermione is not supposed to be a useless, passive, shrinking violet failing to kill herself. And she's certainly not supposed to be with Draco in a Handmaid's Tale scenario where there's barely any sex, just suffering.

I read it due to the buzz and I have deep regrets.

If you ever change your mind, you can still find it in the archives.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats