site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 5, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

105
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Seems likely that if the conservative majority on the Supreme Court survives long enough to decide this case, and if they strike down affirmative action, it will almost certainly be effectively resisted by the universities. As with gun regulation, if SCOTUS leaves even the slightest loophole, they will fit their entire DEI/AA structure into the loophole, and there will have to be another multi-year court battle to decide that. If, miracle of miracles, Chief Justice Roberts actually reiterates his "The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race." and uses absolute language with no loopholes, the colleges will rig their measures -- drop objective ones, make up new "objective" ones which are skewed to favored minorities, and use subjective ones. And then there will be more multi-year court battles, after which the cycle repeats. As long as they cannot actually be punished for doing this, they will.

I'm not so sure there's no way to enforce - couldn't non-compliance end up in lawsuits? I agree, but there will be SOME ability to prevent it after a decision against AA.

Sure, lawsuits. There's always lawsuits. But if they win the lawsuit they go on as usual, and if they lose the lawsuit they change their language a bit and STILL go on as usual. Until they can actually be forced to stop (e.g. by a court-appointed supervisor over their day-to-day operations) or the persons making the decisions can be personally punished, they can go on spending public (and student, which amounts to the same thing given the college financing situation) money to defend against these lawsuits.