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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   34989 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 28, 2022

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What's your basis for your assumption that Brinton is lying about his rough childhood?

... while I don't think it's especially relevant for this case, some of the details in Brinton's past summaries are extremely unusual, especially for their time period. Conversion therapy doesn't work, but even into the late-90s it'd mostly turned into very creepy talk therapy and sometimes the use of psychiatric drugs to reduce sex drive. Which can still get pretty damn overtly abusive!

Brinton alleged that an unnamed therapist applied severe heat, ice, needles, and electrical shocks. There were still therapists using electroshock aversives against children in the early 2000s, but even places like the Judge Rotenberg Center (mostly for autistics) were far outliers and acting in far more circumspect ways. Most serious reports along things line date back to the early 80s or late 70s. The scientific discrediting of aversion therapy probably wasn't enough evidence against its use by some of the more extreme anti-gay actors, but the combination of increasingly bad publicity related to the tactic and changing norms related to psychiatric therapists made it much less common.

And most of the stuff is in that class. It's not that Brinton's father shamed or even beat Brinton for being gay; on coming out, his father allegedly punched the child in the face hard enough to result in one of seven ER visits, and later aimed a gun at the kid. See here for a Blue Tribe perspective. It's possible Wesen's covering for the movement now, but he does point out suspicions dating back to 2011.

This isn't strong evidence: Wesen focuses on Brinton's unwillingness to name names, but it's not quite so completely unheard of to have difficulty with them. And there have been some reports of the use of foul-smelling chemical aversives into the mid-90s and early-00s. And violent threats aimed at gay children weren't completely unheard of in the 00s, and you'd expect some correlation between parents punching kids and parents willing to have their kids electrically shocked. But it raises some questions.

Thanks for the detailed response.

I don't have any opinion on that. I just think is gender identity is made up for attention.

I don't really buy into the whole "non-binary" thing either.

What's your basis for your assumption that Brinton is lying about his rough childhood?

Criminals are usually not the most trustworthy sources, and, face, it, the whole thing was no accident.

Such accidents happen daily on every airport of the world, and are easily resolved when normal, non criminal people are involved.

https://www.quora.com/What-happens-if-someone-else-takes-your-luggage-from-the-airport

Aniruddha Joshi

I experienced this at Mumbai international airport. A person with a similar last name (Mr. Doshi, pun intended!) mistakenly took my bag and walked out of the airport. His bag was of the same brand as mine, and I found it unclaimed at the belt. I immediately alerted the airline staff. They told me not to worry and from the baggage tag traced the owner and his cell number. Luckily, this person was not too far from the airport and was asked to report back to the exit gate of the airport. Meanwhile, the airline ground staff took me to the customs officer and explained that the bag that I was carrying belonged to another person. The bag was promptly X-rayed and I was allowed to exit. Meanwhile, Mr. Doshi was at the exit gate and we exchanged the bags.

The airline ground staff at Mumbai airport was very professional, calm, and prompt. As a result, the entire problem was resolved in 30 minutes. I sent their team an email of appreciation. The airline was Swiss Air.

Sarah Lockwood

I’ve been the one who did this, actually!

I was away for a weekend without my spouse/kiddo, and my flight home was delayed. When I finally landed, and got to the baggage carousel, I saw my big black Osprey backpack with a rainbow luggage tag and grabbed it, since I was running late and didn’t want to miss my family. I got in a cab, went to meet up with my family and that was that. Until I opened up the bag for a gift for my kiddo and the bag didn’t have my stuff in it.. Well CRAP!

I called the airline, who were decidedly uncooperative, and then called the airport and asked to be connected to the airline luggage desk. I explained the whole thing, told them whose name was ACTUALLY on the bag, and that I would return the bag and pick up mine… only they didn’t HAVE mine. Turns out, the guy whose bag I had, had mine.

The airline at the airport called him, explained the situation, and he turned around to head back to the airport. My family and I headed back as well. We parked, got on the escalator to go to the luggage area, and the guy in front of us on the escalator - yep, you guessed it - it was the guy with my bag! We all walked to the airline desk, swapped bags in front of them so they knew it was good, checked that we had the RIGHT bags, shook hands, and walked away. As it happened, he had a short turn-around: he was returning from one business trip and was going back out the next morning…I would have had to wait weeks for my stuff, and he would have been stuck without his gear.

Also, I switched my luggage tag to something more distinctive - no more mistaking it for someone elses!

I agree that what Brinton did cannot reasonably be characterised as an honest mistake. But it seems like a bit of a jump to think "this person committed a crime, therefore we must assume that everything they have ever said about their personal life was a lie and nothing they say can be trusted." Being guilty of one crime does not imply that you are guilty of all crimes, or that you are a pathological liar.

His behavior was exactly one of pathological liar.

"yes, this was not my suitcase, but the clothes inside were mine"

WTF? Ordinary junkie stealing shit to get the next fix would find better excuse when caught. This guy is supposed to be some high IQ irreplaceable genius?

Ordinary junkie stealing shit to get the next fix would find better excuse when caught.

I agree, which is why I don't think Brinton is a pathological liar. I would naively predict a person who lies compulsively to have more practice at coming up with convincing-sounding lies on the spur of the moment. Brinton's behaviour seems more consistent with someone who did something stupid and then panicked when caught red-handed, than with a smooth cunning con artist effortlessly talking their way out of a tight spot.

If Brinton had been caught red-handed, but immediately came up with an untrue-but-believable explanation on the fly, that would cause me to update in favour of their being someone who routinely tells lies and gets away with it. The fact that they got caught red-handed and their "explanation" was so unconvincing (as you said yourself) suggests to me that they do not have a great deal of practice in telling lies i.e. they are not a pathological liar.

"Smooth talking con artist" who is good at his con job is not pathological, pathological lying is compulsive, absurd lying for no conceivable benefit.

We all heard about people who keep inventing fanciful, over the top tales about their past, who cannot stop talking how they are war heroes or Indian princesses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_lying

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