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If the history of the Price Force is unrelated to the army and navy, and the functions it performs are unrelated to the army and navy, then it wouldn't count. Sure, the government could disingenuously claim it's similar when it isn't. There's no way to stop that.
That example was once we've decided it's an army or navy, we need to figure out which one it's more like. You don't do this from scratch.
Also, I'll bring up freedom of the press again. You've said that you didn't think freedom of the press should be treated this way--radio and TV count as the press (and speech) even though the founders didn't include them. So how do you solve the same problem that you have here, for freedom of the press? If the US government tomorrow declared there to be a Price Press which involved the government paying money to subsidize one political party, would this practice be immune to being shut down for any reason since that violates freedom of the press?
If the government declared Marxism to be a religion, would it fall under freedom of religion?
Ok, then I'll just repeat what I wrote in the original comment proposing it:
Perhaps it does not matter which one its history grew up in, and all this establishes is that the Price Force is an ArmyOrNavy. Do we then move on to asking about its supercomputers to try to figure out which one it is?
? Once we decide that it's some quantum superposition? Are you referring to the "ArmyOrNavy Clause"? Where is that in the Constitution?
There is no Constitutional grant of any such authority anywhere. We have specific Constitutional grants of authority. There is no freewheeling grant of authority to establish a Price Press; there is no freewheeling grant of authority to establish a Price Force1; there is no freewheeling grant of authority to establish an Air Force; there is no freewheeling grant of authority to establish a quantum superposition ArmyOrNavy. There is a specific Constitutional grant of authority concerning Armies, specifically and individually. There is a specific Constitutional grant of authority concerning a Navy, specifically and individually.
1 - At least AFAICT. I believe I still remain ignorant as to whether you think the establishment of a Price Force is authorized by your reasoning. I still remain ignorant as to what we do, on your view, about its supercomputers or lack thereof. I still remain ignorant as to what we do, on your view, as to the current Army's supercomputers/other equipment that must be maintained. I guess our first step was to determine that the US Army is an ArmyOrNavy quantum superposition. And then step two is to look at its supercomputers/other equipment that must be maintained and conclude that it's a Constitutional Navy?
A Price Force is not sufficiently like either the army or navy to count, so it isn't authorized. Yes, the government could lie and say that it is.
But there's a freewheeling rule which says that an already existing press gets freedom of the press. So once the Price Press exists, freedom of the press applies to it. Laws or orders that shut it down are unconstitutional.
An Air Force is not sufficiently like either the army or navy to count, so it isn't authorized. Yes, the government could lie and say that it is.
That's pretty easy to just state ipse dixit. But there's something missing that I would call "reasoning". So far, when we've tested your reasoning, it has led to many more questions that you've consistently refused to answer.
That's not how Constitutional grants of authority work. At all. Honestly, if this is your understanding of the Constitution, there's probably not much more value in me continuing this discussion.
Pretty much nobody could sincerely claim that the Price Force counts. A huge number of people could sincerely say that the Air Force counts. The object level is important.
Creating the Price Press is something the government can do using its ordinary powers. The free press clause isn't granting it authority at all.
The free press clause only comes into effect when the government tries to shut it down.
Why not? Frankly, I just don't believe this whatsoever. This is nothing but an argument from personal incredulity. I guess this is what you're left with after your prior tests didn't work out. There's simply not a single shred of reasoning here.
No.
No, it's an argument "people don't think that". It is possible to observe people and draw conclusions about what they might think. "People don't think this" isn't an argument from personal incredulity.
Yes. The government can spend money on lots and lots of things. Consider that the government actually has things like the Voice of America, subsidies to NPR, etc. The Price Press isn't all that different from that.
Facts not in evidence. Especially facts from our hypothetical universe. You can't build a Constitutional test that is just your imagination of what some hypothetical people might think. I want to know what the Constitution says. I happen to think that something like textualism + original public meaning is approximately right. I think a school of Constitutional interpretation that is "I imagined in my head what I think some people I imagined might think in a hypothetical" is part of how we've gotten into this mess, because it's much easier to change people's imaginations than it is to change the Constitution.
This is precisely the point of why I started this all the way back here. People have gotten this stupid idea in their brain that the spending clause authorizes literally any spending that the government chooses to do. This is just simply not true. There are, indeed, precedents to this effect already. My point is that people need to be real about this.
Moreover, this undercuts literally everything else you've argued. The Price Force must also be Constitutional, literally the opposite of the thing you've just been arguing, because "that's just the government spending money". You are literally now embodying the worst position that must be eliminated.
Precisely. The point of this whole entire chain of comments, from the very beginning, was to get people back on track to realize that all sorts of stuff like that are not acceptable. As I wrote:
All laws are going to require some amount of common sense to apply. "What do (sincere) people think" is an inherent part of having laws.
If you think that the government shouldn't be funding media anyway, then ask the question on a more general level: Could the government claim that anything whatsoever counts as the press, and then apply freedom of the press to it? Could it do so for religion or speech, for that matter? If the government could not apply those to anything whatsoever, why wouldn't similar reasoning prevent them from considering the Price Force to be like an army or navy?
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