site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 12, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

15
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

they disagreed with the "Twitter doesn't arbitrate truth" policy but respected it nonetheless.

This is particularly hilarious combined with the "misinformation" angle where Twitter literally arbitrates truth. But I guess no censorship is ever enough.

the TTS team's refusal to declare Trump's tweets to be in violation of policy, with agreement from some key staffers that no coded incitement was present. That's counter to the narrative being written about the TTS team with the other Twitter Files threads

It looks like everybody has their own level of tolerance there. For some it's OK to have super strict rules as long as they are consistently applied, for some it's ok to follow "to friends, everything, to enemies - the law" and apply rules in some cases while ignoring them in others, to some it's ok if you can find the rule to ban, no matter how tenuous the connection, but the rule must be found - and to some the ban has to happen no matter what, and if the rules are not enough, just invent the new ones and ignore them. Maybe it helps the censors to feel they're good guys after all.

As for the narrative, I am not sure it is countered that much. Surely, there were discussions about how to ban a particular deplorable account, and whether a particular deplorable tweet can be matched to a particular rule. That doesn't mean the team didn't have common goal of suppressing certain kind of speech. I mean, it is known that Trotsky and Stalin became bitter enemies at the end, and no doubt argued a lot before that, but that doesn't mean they weren't both communists and didn't have the common goal of overthrowing the bourgeoisie and build the Communist society everywhere. If some of the Twitter team disagreed about whether a particular tweet should be suppressed in a particular manner, that does not exactly disprove the narrative of the existence of the system of suppression based on politics and point of view. It just gives us an insight on its inner workings.

Keep in mind that this was pre-COVID. Most of Twitter’s biggest “well, ackshuallys” hadn’t yet become so salient.

The existence of disagreement is important, even if it was ineffective. Frankly, all these threads are a blur, but I got the impression other releases wanted to paint TTS as leading the charge. The bailey is something like “Twitter was so captured you couldn’t even find rules-lawyers,” and this helps to argue against that particular form.

I'm not sure the existence of disagreement is that important. The communists over their history were constantly Judean People's Front vs. People's Front of Judea, but is that of any use for the victims of communism? (except for the fact that you're never safe even if you're a communist - you may end up in a wrong fraction and be goolaged with the rest of them) Dissent is only valuable if it can lead to substantial changes and improvement. If it's a squabble about how to oppress the enemies of the people more efficiently, then for those who are declared the enemies of the people, it's of little value. It's sure interesting to know that there were different approaches to censorship at Twitter, and different fractions struggling for control over the levers, but ultimately it doesn't change the overarching picture of systemic censorship-eagerness.

I thought most of this stuff was from October 2020 to January 2021; Twitter had begun well-ackshuallying in May 2020.

I suppose you’re right. I had the year wrong.