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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   27923 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 26, 2022

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...How much more developed was America than the "third world" when slavery was established and developed? Compared to, say, the Ottomans? Or if colonial America isn't the correct reference, then Britain, France, etc, for the "developed country"?

Uh, "enough," perhaps? Colonial America was probably somewhere between uncolonized Africa and Continental Europe in terms of industrialization and urban development.

American colonies-interestingly, both in British and French North America, but not south of the rio grande- were noticeably wealthier than the mother country even way back when. This appears to be largely due to how land use regulations were written(to maximize owner-occupied farm productivity while leaving less room for tenant farming and sharecropping, and to give the peasants access to markets) with some selection effects in the mix.

the above was somewhat poorly worded, but if we're dating the introduction of chattel slavery to 1619, wasn't England a relative backwater, and America an extremely-sparsely populated colonial hinterland? Meanwhile the Ottomans were, if I'm not mistaken, a serious empire in their prime, and again if I'm not mistaken had been engaging in chattel slavery for much longer.

Even assuming 1619 as the introduction of chattel slavery(and that’s certainly disputable; chattel slavery didn’t become dominant until later and may not have been distinguished from indentured servitude in 1619), England was a major power and one of the wealthiest societies in the world then, not some kind of backwater.

I admit I'm not terribly clear on what parts of Europe looked like around the 1600's--like, did things still look all, well, medieval-y?

No, they didn't look medievally. Think ruffles, breeches, big floppy hats, rapiers, cannons and star forts. Think The Three Musketeers.

yeah, that was kinda my thinking as well. We think of the Ottomans as sort of backward and undeveloped, but 1600 is well before the industrial revolution; everywhere was "undeveloped" by modern standards. I guess the brits and Americans were put-together enough to set up ocean-going trade networks, but then again their whole society was sorta built around the shores of the Atlantic. Meanwhile, the Ottomans were ruling a vast empire and making the last of their repeated efforts to conquer a significant chunk of Europe.

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