site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 15, 2025

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

4
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Even the 1% clubs, like most gangs, are a lot more nebulous and pourous than most people assume. They will have a core group of hardened criminals, but most of the guys hanging around the club, including a large portion of members, never do anything more extreme than some disorderly conduct and bar fights. Most of the older guys have aged out of the crime and are basically just ordinary suburban dads who get a little rowdier than usual on the weekends. It can be hard to tell who is who because the gun-running meth heads with prison time under their belts hang out with basically fully legit mechanics and retired cops, wearing the same cuts and riding the same bikes.

For every actual criminal, you'll have three or four peripheral hangers-on who want to feel dangerous and intimidate the normies, but are basically ordinary people with regular jobs who like to play dress up and go on road trips with the boys. The ordinary members shield the criminal members behind a veil of plausible deniability, providing cover stories and helping the criminals blend in to the larger group. To an outsider, the nice veteran who runs the club's annual Christmas toy drive and the guy smuggling fentanyl for the cartel are virtually indistinguishable.

(Source: my best friend growing up had a rough childhood and spent a few years as a full member of one of the major outlaw clubs. While people around him were selling drugs and guns, he was able to mostly steer clear of it, outside being given the occasional package to deliver that he wasn't allowed to ask questions about and showing up as a show of force whenever one of his brothers got into some sort of fight)

retired cops

1%er gangs won't allow members who have ever been in law enforcement or correctional work, at least in theory.

Yes, in theory, but I've found that local law enforcement tends to be much more intertwined with organized crime in practice than you would expect in theory. Cops and gangs tend to recruit from very similar populations of violence-prone working class men, with your typical highway patrolman having far more in common culturally with his biker neighbor than with the teachers at his kid's school, for example.

The ordinary members shield the criminal members behind a veil of plausible deniability, providing cover stories and helping the criminals blend in to the larger group.

It's interesting to ponder how that mirrors the common description of Antifa around here. I guess some tactics Just Work, and every group that succeeds in the long term eventually converges on them.

Yeah it's a very similar dynamic that seems to repeat everywhere you look. The vanguard actually willing to engage in personal violence is always dwarfed by the masses of people willing to hide and protect them but not willing to engage in violence themselves.