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PaperclipPerfector  2mo ago (text post)   2588 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for September 19, 2025

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

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People have been complaining that normies are dumb for at least 2,400 years:

STRANGER: Should we not say that the division according to classes, which neither makes the same other, nor makes other the same, is the business of the dialectical science?

THEAETETUS: That is what we should say.

STRANGER: Then, surely, he who can divide rightly is able to see clearly one form pervading a scattered multitude, and many different forms contained under one higher form; and again, one form knit together into a single whole and pervading many such wholes, and many forms, existing only in separation and isolation. This is the knowledge of classes which determines where they can have communion with one another and where not.

THEAETETUS: Quite true.

STRANGER: And the art of dialectic would be attributed by you only to the philosopher pure and true?

THEAETETUS: Who but he can be worthy?

STRANGER: In this region we shall always discover the philosopher, if we look for him; like the Sophist, he is not easily discovered, but for a different reason.

THEAETETUS: For what reason?

STRANGER: Because the Sophist runs away into the darkness of not-being, in which he has learned by habit to feel about, and cannot be discovered because of the darkness of the place. Is not that true?

THEAETETUS: It seems to be so.

STRANGER: And the philosopher, always holding converse through reason with the idea of being, is also dark from excess of light; for the souls of the many have no eye which can endure the vision of the divine.

THEAETETUS: Yes; that seems to be quite as true as the other.

STRANGER: Well, the philosopher may hereafter be more fully considered by us, if we are disposed; but the Sophist must clearly not be allowed to escape until we have had a good look at him.

THEAETETUS: Very good.

I love socratic dialogues written by people who clearly don't understand the point of a socratic dialogue.

I've never perceived the Socratic dialogue to have much of a point at all. It's mostly one of the following (or a combination), depending on how kind we are being to the writer:

1: Attempting to get away with strawmanning an opponent by presenting someone who starts disagreeing with you but then immediately caves and agrees with all of your counterarguments as soon as you present them.

2: Attempting to leverage pathos to trick the audience into agreeing with you more than your logical arguments alone would by building them a character who starts in their position (opposition or ignorance) and build empathy with them before the character switches to agreeing with you (causing the audience who identifies with them to subconsciously follow suit).

3: Trying to explain something in a way that's less boring than a monologue, by simulating characters and counterpoints and a skeleton of a narrative to the explanation so the explanation is presented in a more engaging way.

Theoretically if your characters are intelligent and aren't just strawmen meant to prop up the MC in the most shallow way this can work, but basically the only example I've ever seen of something like this is in some of Scott Alexander's works. The vast majority, including and especially the classics like this one, are shallow and pointless.

They still usually at least attempt to build a strawman to take down. I'm not sure I've ever seen one before that didnt even pretend to go through the motions.

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