This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I have to say that I find ICE agents conduct their trade while masked very distasteful.
In a healthy democracy, being law enforcement is not something so shameful that you would hide it from your neighbors. Of course, one would not have a public list of all the home addresses of cops, but you will generally learn the name of some cops who interact with you, e.g. when you are being arrested.
In Germany, police in full riot gear, e.g. during demonstrations, do not wear name tags, but they do wear numerical codes. If any police misconduct happens, that means that the court can find out who is the officer in the video.
There is also a broader point to be made with regard to enforcing federal laws opposed by a supermajority of the locals. Sometimes it is clearly the right thing, if some town thinks that lynchings are fine then invade them with the national guard by all means. Sometimes it is clearly the wrong thing, if a state does not enforce federal narcotics legislation, that is their own problem (at least until they ship it to other states). While immigration is clearly a federal matter, I think that it would make sense to start with the places with high anti-immigration sentiments where most people would cheer at ICE (unless it is their farm workers being deported) rather than the blue strongholds.
In a healthy democracy random "organized" antifa groups would be allowed to exist funded by darkpool liberal money. In a healthy democracy one part of the political body wouldn't be trying to pull a fast one and import as many immigrants as possible in an attempt to "stack the vote" in their favor.
More options
Context Copy link
If there's some Federal law it is OK not to enforce in some places because the people don't like it, that law should not be a Federal law. Part of the point of having laws is they're uniform; a neighborhood can't just set up Murdertown where killing anyone who looks funny is de facto legal. Yeah, I know, murder is different than immigration -- but the mechanism for making that distinction is though making the law in the first place, not declaring its enforcement off limits when the locals don't like it.
More options
Context Copy link
Even there you have number of masked units under SEK and MEK task forces which wear masks and baklavas exactly to prevent their identification by criminal organizations in order to protect their private life. And this is also not exactly rare - even in the article, these units conducted over 500 operations a year in Berlin alone - so we are probably talking about 10+ operations daily across Germany.
Given that ICE is actually also conducting their operations in environment where there is literal presence of professional smugglers and cartels, protecting their identity is not something I'd say is out of bounds. This recent shooting as well as attack on officers before only prove the point.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link