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PaperclipPerfector  2d ago (text post)   9908 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 6, 2025

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The quibble is that if Jose is willing to work on a farm in California for what are shit American wages but still a better deal than staying home, the progressive view is that allowing Jose to stay is not advocating against our own interests or wealth redistribution, it's Jose contributing his labor to the economy and getting paid.

Progressives simply don't care that he had to enter illegally to get to this point because they'd rather immigration be expanded in the first place. I'd personally rather more expansive work visas that allow them to do this while still being vetted, and with better wage/labor controls. The conservative view seems to be that if we got rid of all the illegals farmers would pay more and Americans would do it, of which I am skeptical.

The conservative view seems to be that if we got rid of all the illegals farmers would pay more and Americans would do it, of which I am skeptical.

I mean, at some point one of three things is going to happen.

  1. The price of farm labor will climb high enough that Americans will do it.
  2. The price of farm labor will climb high enough that it will be cheaper to automate it, unless 1 happens first.
  3. The price of farm labor will exceed the price people are willing to pay for the food and the farm will go under, unless 1 or 2 happen first.

A more complete account of (1) may look like: the price of farm labor will climb high enough, and American living standards will sink low enough, that Americans will do it.

Not everything can be automated, and as farming labour gets more expensive, Americans (who buy things downstream from farms) will need more money and hence higher wages to sustain the same lifestyle.

Before 3 happens you get "the price of food rises enough that the voters get unhappy, and unhappy voters are bad for reelection chances".

The price of farm labor will exceed the price people are willing to pay for the food and the farm will go under

This is what happens. Western wage demands and a global food market cannot work together, full stop.

America could import a ton more food, every agricultural exporting country would love to sell more avocados to America.

America doesn't want to give up food security, which is the right choice.

So then you can:

  1. tariff food imports until for prices rise such that the wage cost can be met

  2. go full socialism and subsidize farmers even harder than the USA already does to make up the wage cost without impacting food prices which would be hilariously expensive

If the automation existed it would already be in use all over the world

The quibble is that if Jose is willing to work on a farm in California for what are shit American wages but still a better deal than staying home, the progressive view is that allowing Jose to stay is not advocating against our own interests or wealth redistribution, it's Jose contributing his labor to the economy and getting paid.

Open border, a functioning economy, a robust welfare state. Pick two, and the welfare state is functionally non-negotiable. This version of the progressive take is simply a lie. They manifestly don't care if Jose works, and would rather shut down the government than accept a limitation on their ability to give him taxpayer money.

The conservative view seems to be that if we got rid of all the illegals farmers would pay more and Americans would do it, of which I am skeptical.

Or that it could just be automated, and that it's insane to import tens of millions of farm workers right as we're looking at an AI/robotics era-defining revolution.

Open border, a functioning economy, a robust welfare state. Pick two, and the welfare state is functionally non-negotiable.

Ah yes, how could I forget all the wonderful government benefits that illegals most definitely qualify for. The rest is quite frankly a parody of how other people think and what motivates them.

Or that it could just be automated, and that it's insane to import tens of millions of farm workers right as we're looking at an AI/robotics era-defining revolution.

A, if they could be easily automated they already would be. B, Honestly the entire farm industry sounds like a mess to me with smaller farmers being pushed out of the market or being beholden to shitty John Deere's locked-down repair practices. I'm not as anti-AI as your average lefty, but I don't think this is coming in the next let's say 10 years and I don't think it'll be all that great when it arrives.

Ah yes, how could I forget all the wonderful government benefits that illegals most definitely qualify for. The rest is quite frankly a parody of how other people think and what motivates them.

They explicitly do in blue states. I tangentially interact with the process on a daily basis. And deeper than that, there's a thriving market in fraud and fake SSNs. Things like "free healthcare for illegals" are fucking budget items in California. NY and other states spent billions on free housing, free benefits and free money for illegal immigrants. This was widely covered. The relentless playing stupid about this is honestly kind of breathtaking and intellectually damning.

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