This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
There is a culture war angle here about how some people like animals way more than humans.
Considering all the things Hasan has previously done and said (things that break the Twitch TOS like doxing other people and arguably inciting violence with inflammatory rhetoric), if this alleged mistreatment of the dog is what gets him cancelled, it's pretty revealing what certain people's priorities actually are.
This story was brought up on some discord servers I'm in with people that lean mostly left/center and the consensus is that's "subhuman" behavior from Hasan. So it's not something that's just circulating around his haters.
That being said, I highly doubt this is what gets Hasan cancelled, or that this will be a major blow to his reputation. Anyone who isn't a fan of Hasan probably already greatly dislike him, and many people on the left aren't huge fans of Hasan. The worst this can do is get some of his existing fans to stop watching his content.
It's revealing of the fact that in your face things are easier to rally around, you don't have to pay attention to a word he says to see what's happening to the dog.
More options
Context Copy link
I don't think it's so much a question of priorities. The people that Hassan mistreats, he would argue (and his audience would agree) are evil people that deserve it. And for that matter, he could be right; I don't know enough about it to say for those people, but I do believe some people are evil and do deserve bad treatment.
Dogs though, I'm not convinced at all are capable of evil. They either act according to their natural instincts, or they act how they've been trained. Thus I find mistreating a dog is a worse act of villainy against an innocent than mistreating a person that you believe is evil.
I am intrigued - what do you think is the difference between humans and dogs, that you believe the “He’s a good boy he was just raised wrong” argument above doesn’t also apply to humans?
Humans have much more meta-cognition to be able to learn independent from their initial nurturing. They can also think about the cause and effect of their actions, which dogs cannot. They can also learn much more easily, and generalize that learning (dogs are so so so bad at generalizing).
But I personally am actually somewhat a fan of that argument when applied to humans who came from anti-social or otherwise extremely sub-optimal backgrounds.
The other side of that though is much like a shitty dog, I think shitty humans should be shipped off to a farm (compassionate gulag?) to be re-trained, and if they are incapable of this, be removed from regular society so they don't bite anyone.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link