This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Yeah, you make a strong point. I suppose ultimately the 2016 campaign with the FBI covering for Hillary, and then subsequent FBI involvement in the 2020 election and the Covid "misinformation" thing is evidence of utter corruption in our political process.
Nuts that it's all relatively out in the open, and yet half the country seems to not be aware or not care about it. Sigh.
Don't forget illegally spying on her opponents' campaign office. For completely unknowable reasons, including what happened to any intel thus obtained.
Wasn't the intelligence put into the PDB and distributed to the Clinton campaign?
I don't think there has ever been any public statement about the results or even purpose of the investigation. It's been acknowledged the FBI lied in order to obtain the warrant to surveil Page, but nothing else.
Of course, this is all going by memory. A cursory search results in lots and lots of whitewashed "fact checks" about how Trump was totally lying about the FBI spying on him; none mention Page. I found a few links purporting to lead to articles on the FISA court's condemnation of the FBI over the Page warrant, but they are all dead.
Speaking as someone who followed that whole episode closely enough that I once knew the details of why footnote 389 in the IG report meant that the FBI had been lying about when they opened their various investigations against their various targets, my memory of this says that the FISA court, being involved in signing on to an obviously false FISA warrant, played the IG report straight and sent it back to DoJ. The upshot of that was that Brandon Von Grack was removed as a prosecutor from the Flynn case, a new DoJ attorney was appointed, and what do you know, suddenly pretty much every single piece of evidence that Flynn's defense alleged existed and had been seeking, and that the DoJ denied existing, was produced and the DoJ was motioning to dismiss the case. The judge denied the motion, defense sought a writ of mandamus, appeals initially granted the writ but then convened a full panel, which allowed the judge to continue the trial, etc. etc.
Oh, and Kevin Clinesmith, the guy who falsified the CIA's answer that Page was an asset, was fined $100 for his crime.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link