site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 3, 2025

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Today is a good day for a non-p-hacked evaluation of the stock market under Trump. I had discussed this with someone during the initial tariff chaos, and wanted to return to it at some point. That conversation ended up using euro prices due to worries about dollar inflation; in the following the brackets always show the data based on euros.

The day of the election, the S&P 500 made +2.5(+4.1)%, from which we can impute between -2.5(-4.1)% and -1.1(-1.8)% for a hypothetical Kamala win, depending on what odds we use for he election. Given the spirit of the exercise, I think we should use the prediction market prices for this, giving the second set of numbers. In reaction to the tariffs, it dropped strongly to a low point of -13.8(-15.4)%, on April 8(21), and after various takebacks recovered quickly to +3.1(+0.7)% on May 16(16). Since then it has shown a relatively linear increase, ending the year at +17.5(+11.1)%. Inflation that year was 3.0(2.1)%. Despite these seemingly similar inflation numbers, there is a significant gap in the final return, and its probably better to use the lower number.

Historically, annual returns were +10.5%, or +6.7% after inflation (those are for dollar only, the euro wasnt around that long, but probably irrelevant over those time scales). So going with the more pessimistic euro numbers, this year was slightly above average in total, or moderately below relative to the post-election price. I think we can take this mostly at face value; because expectations are priced in with stocks, there is much less risk that credit goes to anything that happened earlier, and I dont know what windfall looks like a linear increase. It doesnt seem like the market significantly misjudged Trump on election day.

The most interesting point here to me are the tariffs. Essentially since Trump revived this topic, Ive seen a never ending stream of takes about how very bad they are, an entirely new kind of economic terribleness, etc, and not a single one has claimed a numerical effect size. After asking around for one, the only thing Ive gotten is this, estimating GDP to be -0.6% in the long term based on policy in April (the have an update with more current policy to -0.35%). That seemed low, but from a non-trumpy source I figured thats probably a good sign. And it certainly seems in line with the numbers above now. Overall, I still think tariffs are bad for the economy, but it seems the effect size is still small relative to everything else going on, even with the drastic measures weve seen.

If the US gov is trading a tiny economic impact in exchange for the national security and long term economic benefits of reshoring, I would consider that a win.