This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Depends on what sense you mean “more functional.” Plenty of societies on Earth do things better or more effectively than Americans do.
The numbers don’t really back that up do they? [Nationality]-Americans have better outcomes than their [Nationality] brethren back home for every given group, the American economy outperforms all other economies, and America is pretty much always leading the trends in what turns out to be the revealed preference of nearly everyone once they hit a certain income level (large homes, cars, A/C, social spending, etc).
I mean I’m sure other societies do some things more in line with what you like but that’s not really a great definition of “better.” Most things America does ‘poorly’ America simply prefers this way, such as poor crime enforcement for instance. Most Americans wouldn’t really go for a Japan-style maximum enforcement if given the choice.
I don’t have numbers on this but I also don’t think it’s necessary to make the point.
North Korea has a better border policy towards illegal entrants than we do. Finland has a better educational system. Germany has better employment law. Singapore has better real estate policies. China’s executed people for expropriating capital out of the country. Switzerland has a better healthcare system. How many examples would you regard as sufficient?
I'm not saying the solution is for America to immediately and identically adopt all said policies and replace the existing ones we have. There are unique circumstances that fit each country’s needs the way that they do. I don’t think raw economic or GDP numbers are the appropriate gauge to make this argument however. It’s been well known for quite a while that correlations between a person’s annual salary and personal happiness fall off remarkably about around $70,000. You don’t need to be an American to make $70k per year. And being the richest country in the world by GDP matters far less than where those numbers are captured and what the distribution is.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link