This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I agree that it’s good to voice these things, publicly. But I’m not sure it matters. Remigration from Europe would be the largest or second-largest major population transfer in human history. It would require unfathomable state capacity and run roughshod over the constitution of every major Western European country (that has a constitution), that kind of action would itself require consistent supermajority governments over many years, when many are ruled only by unstable coalitions with nobody capable of getting even a simple majority. Even the National Rally, Meloni’s party, the Austrians are all moderating rapidly, only the AfD is still ‘hard right’ and there is every chance they get shut down if they start doing better than they are (my guess is the BfV wants to spin out a softer, more libertarian, Bardella-esque wing).
In many cases (I know you might disagree) the same forces - lethargy, ambivalence to the grand forces that shape civilization, a prioritization of the comfort of retired voters above all else, firm allegiance to the shibboleths of the vaguely post-Catholic social democracy upon which the EU was founded - that created the present economic calamity also created the immigration one. A lack of action is built into the system.
Seems to me the easy change is to cut social spending to immigrants. State in six months the spigot is turned off but will pay an additional six month lump sum + moving costs if they leave.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link