site banner
PaperclipPerfector  3d ago (text post)   13447 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 8, 2025

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

5
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I'm sorry but this is somewhere between nonsense and cope.

Our floors are treated much more like the ground outside than a clean indoor surface. We don't put pillows on the floor and lay on them, we don't eat off the ground. So it's really not a big deal.

So you admit that the floor is considered unclean in houses where people wear shoes indoors.

That said, we don't just track filth indoors -- we have doormats and it would be unthinkable to track mud or shit inside the house.

This is like an ancient Roman telling me that they don't just walk around with shit in their asscrack, they wipe with the communal sponge on a stick.

And while their floors have less outside dirt and dust, they are far from clean unless swept regularly, especially if one has kids or pets. So the difference in cleanliness is also exaggerated.

Any horizontal surface is going to accumulate dust and dirt, of course. But wearing shoes in the house isn't making it any better. It's simply inarguable that the sole of a shoe is dirtier than the sole of your foot.

But this whole meme smacks of "wypipo don season dey food" or "white people are all inbred pedos," nonsense made up out of whole cloth, or very nearly.

It's got nothing to do with wypipo. There's a lot of variation in cultural norms, but basically all of Eastern Europe takes their shoes off at home (inb4 "slavs are asiatics").

So you admit that the floor is considered unclean in houses where people wear shoes indoors.

The floor is considered unclean in houses where people don't wear shoes indoors. Like the one I'm living in now. It's not the big deal people make it out to be.

This is like an ancient Roman telling me that they don't just walk around with shit in their asscrack, they wipe with the communal sponge on a stick.

Unless you live in the middle of a hog farm, no, it's not like that at all. Your metaphor is really melodramatic.

Any horizontal surface is going to accumulate dust and dirt, of course. But wearing shoes in the house isn't making it any better.

Eh, but it's only slightly worse. Again, unless you live in an absolutely filthy environment, it's not really a big deal. To be fair, I would not have wanted to wear my shoes indoors when living in China because the eldritch grime and bio-filth on the streets and sidewalks was genuinely terrifying. But in Japan and the (rural) U.S. the streets are clean. The worst thing you might bring inside is a little sand or dirt, and those are easily handled with a doormat.

It's got nothing to do with wypipo.

Sure, and that's cool. Good for Slavs for doing that if they like it, and no I don't think they're Asiatics. What I mean by that comment was that it's a minor, mostly inconsequential cultural difference that gets blown up online because a certain subset of non-Euros/non-whites/non-Americans seem desperate for "insults" that will "stick" and so they fixate on this. I honestly think it's a lot of sour grapes, tbh, just like most "Do Americans really?"-style questions.

The floor is considered unclean in houses where people don't wear shoes indoors.

So then you must agree that not wearing shoes in the house is more hygienic, since the floor is cleaner in such houses. Which was my original point.

What I mean by that comment was that it's a minor, mostly inconsequential cultural difference that gets blown up online because a certain subset of non-Euros/non-whites/non-Americans seem desperate for "insults" that will "stick" and so they fixate on this. I honestly think it's a lot of sour grapes, tbh, just like most "Do Americans really?"-style questions.

I'm not familiar with the "shoe in house" discourse, it's simply a salient thing many Americans do that's less hygienic than the alternatives.

I guarantee it's not sour grapes in my case because I'm an American myself.

I was responding to that discourse which has been around for 5-10 years. I thought everyone had seen it by now.

I do get your point. I prefer not to wear shoes in my house. But if someone wore shoes in my house, I probably wouldn't be too bothered.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats