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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   34549 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 30, 2023

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It's exactly the same thing. Black people are stereotyped as large and violent, orcs are large and violent, so orcs are black people. This is nonsense when it comes to Tolkien or D&D, but Netflix's "Dark" clearly played on it (despite having actual black people in it too). For the same reason, not every depiction of a greedy banker is intended to represent Jews, though some are.

Do you mean Bright with Will Smith?

Oh, right, "Bright", not "Dark". Got it backwards. ("Dark" is a bizarro German time-travel series)

It's exactly the same thing. Black people are stereotyped as large and violent, orcs are large and violent, so orcs are black people

Tolkeins orcs aren't particularly large and their capacity for violence is either at the behest of masters who herd them into battle with the crack of the whip, or a kind of petty and mean vindictiveness that doesn't really seem to align with stereotypes. Similarly, Warhammer orcs/orks are football hooligans and don't come across as particularly "black". Warcraft orcs are just a "noble savage" mish-mash, although they are the closest, what with the history of slavery, but it's weakened by the half a dozen other inspirations.

Maybe it's a US thing, but the assosciation between black stereotypes and orcs still seems pretty weak.

For the same reason, not every depiction of a greedy banker is intended to represent Jews, though some are.

Of course, I don't think Rowling intended any coded message about jews in her work, as I say in another post, I think she was just drawing from the cultural well in general for her book and it just so happens that a lot of stereotypes in Britain about bankers/money men have crossovers with those about jews.

The only orcs that match Black stereotypes are Shadowrun orcs.

Most fantasy orcs (including D&D/Forgotten Realms orcs) are more of an "evil savage" stereotype: primitive, aggressive, stupid, fecund, living apart from the civilized races and raiding them.

The Orcs of The Elder Scrolls are closer to a direct reference than Warcraft Orcs. However, the coded references to African-American stereotypes are also spread across a few other playable races:

  • The Redguard are black humans who have a samurai-inspired martial culture and martial aesthetic

  • The cat-people, the Khajiit, have historically been slaves in the dark elves’ province, and have a reputation as casual thieves

  • The lizard-people, the Argonians, have also historically been enslaved and oppressed by the dark elves, played as somewhat shamanist, somewhat tribal noble savages

before Skyrim the Redguard were pretty directly analogous to African-Americans (look at the names in Oblivion for example), but then they were changed later to be a quasi-Moorish analogue

The orcs of TES used to be elves didn't they? I might be thinking of Gothic, but iirc they were given monstrous features as punishment for worshipping one of the daedra - similar to the curse of Ham (actually Canaan) and another parallel.

Yep, they were high elves whose patron god was eaten by another and shat out. Their effete and noble appearance was changed to ugliness and raw strength when their digested god became a demon. (This is inaccurate but shortened for those who’ve not played.)

Orcs just are mer (elves) in Elder Scrolls - their race are called "orsimer." I believe their changed appearance is because the Elven god they followed was swallowed by a daedric prince, and after being "digested" he came out as an ugly daedra himself, with those who remained loyal to him changing in appearance as well.

You might be mixing the curse of Ham analogy up with the dark elves, who got punished when the Tribunal found the heart of Lorkhan, ascended to godhood, and moved the dark elves away from worshipping the daedric princes they had before. The tribunal reframed their new appearance as a blessing that set them appart though.

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