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So there is a question that has been gnawing at me for the longest time: is PRC... Good? I mean:
I mean, there are obviously some tough things to get over (the whole free speech thing, how they handled COVID with safetyism that would make many in the West blush, all the other usual stuff), but genuinely, honestly... Following the news from China for a few years, I really can't help but envy the Chinese. Take down the communist iconography and I think that many on the right would see it similarly to Japan.
I mean China is one of the world's most morally bankrupt societies, they lie all the time to everyone (foreign and domestic), they have the most stealing of any country (primarily in the form IP theft), don't really believe in international treaties and society, engage in genocide, oppress their population, clearly want to steal Taiwan (jury is out on how bad they'll be about this) and during a time when we are realizing how much we've fucked the environment they refuse to do anything but worsen the problem.*
What they have (at least superficially, it isn't totally clear) is strength.
That's enough for some people, I'm not sure it is for me.
*I don't think any of these are controversial but please let me know if so.
I think your points e.g. about not believing in international treaties or China worsening environmental problems, are obviously nonsense at least in comparison to the US (how anyone can still say this with a straight face after everything that happened last year is both interesting and sad), and not really worthy of discussion especially considering how you responded to others arguments below. And of course saying that our society is the most morally bankrupt is just silly considering how (unfortunately) exposed Americans are to other low trust immigrant societies. But it is hard to argue that the average Chinese person is less morally bankrupt than the average American. I know what my preference would be if I ever had to choose.
It’s pretty apparent that China, as of this year, is still a fairly low trust society, despite how much progress it has made (and despite how safe, clean, and orderly the major cities are). There is a genuine mistrust between people, which is reflected in the hypercompetitive, striver culture. You can’t rely on anyone but yourself, and competition with others is seen as a zero sum game. This kind of mentality is quite common among Chinese people, and it’s sorta reflected in web novels, one of the few semi-successful Chinese cultural output in the West. Of course also reflected in the toxic work cultures in Chinese companies overseas (eg tiktok).
I remember a few weeks ago there was a discussion about how high-trust societies were built, and how impossible that now feels. I think Chinese society may actually be building one right now, through harsh and draconian laws, and through education. From my experience, my generation is certainly more trusting than my parents, which is a low bar considering how the Cultural Revolution and the purges destroyed the good and the noble and turned everyone else into cynical non-believers. Like many things, I think our society is moving in the right direction although still deeply flawed and feels hopeless at times. I don’t think Americans feel the same way about their own society.
I don't understand how someone can look at how the U.S. and Europe tried to walk off a cliff for environmentalism and say with a straight face that China is the same.
It's not credible.
China refuses to make costly economic decisions to protect the environment and is doing things like massive pollution, destroying local ocean fauna, and so on.
You can argue that this is economically a good idea, but it.....is happening.
The U.S. has chaotic moments but the overall arc is to make costly decisions of questionable efficacy to try and solve the problem. This has yet to be massively effective but they are trying.
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