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PaperclipPerfector  4d ago (text post)   17697 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 19, 2026

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I was catching up on the quality contribution threads for last month (yes, I'm very late...) and I ran across this post from @Amadan.

I found this part specifically was interesting in the broader context of the discussion:

Assuming, of course, that their standards are not too high... You don't want fat Sally the checkout clerk or carousel-riding Cathy, fine. You insist on a 20-something slim attractive virgin who is agreeable and submissive? Hmm, good luck if you're not a 6/6/6. (Or a Mormon.)

One of these things is not like the other.

For men:

  • Six figures: quite difficult to do. Statistically only a fourth of the men in the US achieve this (and of course this assumes that the requirement won't change if all men achieved this).
  • Six feet: mostly driven by genetics and childhood nutrition. And only achieved by 14.5% of men in the US (according to Google).
  • Six pack: this presumably any man could achieve with sufficient exercise (and diet control) though it might be difficult to do concurrently with a six figure job.

For women:

  • 20-something: every woman will be a 20-something for ten years of her life.
  • Slim/attractive (they're mostly the same thing): partially driven by genetics? But still, exercise and diet go a long way here.
  • Virgin who is agreeable and submissive: these are all completely within the median woman's control. As they say, manners cost nothing.

Is it just me or is this scale a bit tilted?

(Apologies for responding so late and in a top-level comment; I didn't want this getting buried in a weeks old thread.)

agreeable and submissive: these are all completely within the median woman's control. As they say, manners cost nothing.

This is untrue. Agreeableness is a largely fixed Big 5 trait, like extroversion. Many, perhaps most, classic women's and children novels are about this. Female writers tend to be more introverted, disagreeable and high openness than average, and are always writing about that experience.

But more than that, agreeableness is a trait with more utility for a woman's parents, husband, boss, and babies than for the woman herself, so it's only worth cultivating if circumstances reward it. Circumstances do not currently reward it. They often punish it. If you've got to work a job on the open marketplace (as most women do, even once married), best not be too easy to get taken advantage of. Also, very high submissiveness invites abusive relationships.

If your argument is that eligible men that are prone to reward it are out there but are fewer in number than in earlier times for various reasons, I agree with you. However, if it is that female agreeableness has somehow lost its value even among men that are open to marriage because times have changed, then I disagree. And I think that female agreeableness is generally as rewarded by parents and children as ever.

If we’re specifically discussing the scenario where an ambitious young middle-class or upper-class woman wants to have a fancy career and get dream promotions, then her agreeableness will indeed be punished.

I mean that agreeableness, in the Big 5 sense, is a core personality trait, which affects things like

  • How likely is she to let her baby cry it out, vs practice gentle parenting?
  • How likely is she to get involved with trying to protect immigrant families from ICE, and shame people who disagree (more likely if agreeable in Big 5 sense)
  • Is she going to have sex with men even when she doesn't want to, then feel upset about it afterwards (more likely if agreeable)
  • Will she stand up for herself at work? Why would you think this is only a striver concern? Plenty of people have to negotiate with their bosses, or they'll end up terribly stressed out over trivial stuff. There are plenty of bosses in low end service jobs who will abuse their servers or cashiers it the employees allow it. Will she quit if she needs to?
  • In some cultures: will she become the slave of her mother in law?
  • Once married, will she tell her husband what she really wants when their interests conflict, or will she just do what he wants but quietly be upset about it?

In the short term, perhaps these traits are "rewarded" with more romantic interest and attention. But in the long term, women who are very agreeable need to learn to be more assertive, or they become the kind of person who's always taking shit in person, then writing self pitying screeds behind your back.

I man can "reward" her with romance, but then in the medium to long term fail to reciprocate by guessing her true desires and responding accordingly. Having to guess all the time can be frustrating.

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