This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Actually agree a lot. Wealth of nations and realistically for individuals is how much stuff you can buy. Things getting cheaper make you wealthier.
But we are past for the most part material wealth and people care a lot about status. Owning $10m home that’s 2k sq feet feels wealthier when everyone else you know lives in a 500 sq ft studio than having a 10k sq ft home but everyone has as a 10k sq home.
Status of course does matter. Girls will sleep with you because you are richer than others. And that makes people feel richer than if the can increase consumption 10x but others have more.
What I am teasing out by being autistic is status wealth versus material wealth. Most people if they had to choose between $50m in their background in today’s world versus being bottom quintile number in back account but they can afford anything they can dream of would choose the former.
I basically agree with a caveat -- I would take the future world if "anything they can dream of" includes health care so good that it allows you to live for thousands of years, the same way that -- in theory -- a car can be maintained indefinitely.
But anyway, as I suggested in another post, it seems that wealth might be inextricably linked to scarcity. For example, when it comes to food, the US in an age of abundance -- it's literally given away for free. So wealthy people eat steak in Michelin-starred restaurants while poor people eat MacDonald's hamburgers. I doubt that those poor people feel wealthy.
What's even more striking to me is that anyone in the United States can easily afford a drug store digital watch which is more accurate than a Rolex. But it's the same thing -- wealthy people wear fancy watches and non-wealthy people don't feel wealthy.
So yeah, I'm not optimistic about future abundance making everyone wealthy. In fact, I worry that we will end up with a kind of permanent aristocracy sort of like what existed in the Middle Ages. From what I understand, at that time, most of Europe's wealth was in the form of land which was passed down from generation to generation. From what I understand, there was a surplus of human labor so that it was very difficult to become wealthy by working. I worry that in a post-AGI world, something similar could happen.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link