This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Let's talk babies! There's a viral video going around on X about a young lady who supposedly never wants kids, then gets to hold one of her friend's babies. She immediately breaks down crying, and declares she wants eight kids!
I find this story fascinating because I relate to it on such a personal level. For much of my early life, even up until my late 20s, I also was staunchly someone who never wanted kids. I would proudly declare this intention to the older people in my life, and they'd look at me with a gleam in their eye and say "sure kid, just give it a few years." I resented their calm certainty I'd change my mind, but turns out they were right.
For me though, it wasn't JUST growing up. It was, as the woman above experienced, spending time around young children. Once I got to babysit my niece and nephew regularly, I realized that kids are incredible to be around! They're so full of joy, laughter, and just general excitement about life, in a truly infectious way.
Personally I think that a huge reason we have so many difficulties in the culture war, in fertility, and I'd go so far as to say mental health, is because our society is no longer oriented around children. We separate young kids from every other age demographic besides their own, and their parents. Most teenagers / young adults spend years or even a decade without ever being around a small child for more than 10 mins. I know I did.
There's something deeply wrong in that setup, as I genuinely believe a huge part of the human experience lies in spending time with the little ones. They really do have the kingdom of Heaven, there's just something so pure and untouched by the difficulties of life in their way of being.
I also suspect that our general breakdown of communal sentiment is tied to a lack of being around kids. I think that as you spend more time around kids, you naturally care more about your community, safety in your neighborhood, and wanting to form safe groups. Novelty in the form of partying and drugs becomes less interesting because you get all the novelty you need from raising young ones.
Either way, while I know it will have to play out over long time scales, I do genuinely hope we can get back to a society where having lots of kids and spending time with them at all ages is far more common than today.
I'd say our social tools peak in a small loosely related group (tribe or village) that's multi generational and limited in number so people spend time with kids, elders, peers and the whole group is below the Dunbar number.
The issue is were much much wealthier because we can specialize to an enormously finer level than that set up allows and once specialized, we maximize value by rearranging so that we're physically near other specialists.
My deep regret is that the Internet didn't let us establish specialist networks over wide geographic areas that let us stay in villages for social lives while teaming up globally for productivity. Instead we tried to turn the globe into our village which is making everyone miserable.
Hemingway levels of economy of words. Blown away by how much weight this comment holds (seriously).
I'm a remote work maximalist for this reason. There are certain companies, including new startups, that have hardcore work in person requirements. Monday to Friday, no exceptions. Not only will these places fail to attract and keep high level talent, they're literally contributing to social malaise and atomization. This isn't their intent, per se, so I stop short of assigning moral culpability here. But their anti-social and anti-family negligence is profound.
This can work for um work, but I highly doubt it’s possible for more general social configurations.
That was my point.
The internet means whatever your career specialization is is not longer geographically bounded.
This means we can create communities of varied occupations / occupational classes where the focus and emphasis is on the strength of that community.
Instead, as @atelier's parent comment points out, we self-segregate into enclaves of rough career equivalence; suburbs full of striver type PMC jobs, wealthy neighborhoods full of lawyers / bankers / executive types.
To be fair, this is a complex system - housing costs and class based behavioral patterns also matter. The point is that the global flexibility that the internet should've allowed got inverted so that being in tech and not living in SF/NYC/Boston and a handful of other places means you work in tech but aren't in the right tech circles.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link