This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I met my wife when she was 18 and I was 27. I'm not exactly a social butterfly but I never noticed any obvious disapproval of this in the real world. I think the dynamic is fairly obvious and is an instance of Sailer's Law of Female Journalism. I think your explanations 2 and 2a are most applicable. Male desires are invalid when they aren't female-approved, but female desire for height and a full head of hair are never questioned outside of incel forums.
I once saw a good joke on twitter that went something like this, "Female desire for men to have a full head of hair is rooted in pedophilia", and truthfully, that is exactly the level most of these critiques are operating at.
Was with a woman at one point who started drinking the feminist kool-aid and hit me with the whole "Wanting me to shave down there is patriarchal pedophilia" thing. I countered by pointing out that she also preferred me (my face) to be clean-shaven. No answer to that of course.
That relationship lasted a lot longer than it had any right to and many years later I still feel relief to have escaped. I have a beard now, too.
It's depressing how easy it is to run circles around so many arguments I've heard from women I've dated. But it doesn't strengthen the relationship, i.e. she treats as dispassionate sport and maybe learns something. It just creates bad vibes and results in a breakup. But I can't be with a dullard either, who isn't interested in ideas and arguing, no matter how nice or well-composed or healthy she is. It's a bummer.
They just communicate differently. The object level is a distant concern compared to the status signals it encodes. Once they feel safe and satisfied they're as capable of sincere intellectual exploration as anyone else.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link