This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
That is true, but in a weird way caring about them makes you less likely to have them. I think of the "Manliest" men I have known in my life, and I think of Don Miguel, who ran his hillside finca his entire life, caused no trouble for anybody, resolved any trouble brought to him by others one way or another to his own satisfaction, and was carrying fenceposts a couple miles up a hill well into his 80's. When it was his turn to help the neighbor put up a roof he did it without complaint, when it was his turn to get a roof put up the neighbors were happy to help.
At no point in his entire life did he for a second thing about " A man is a provider. A man is skilled at hard things. A man ...", or testosterone, or the dating marketplace. Similarly for my picks in the US; my neighbour Lloyd, old man Swede, etc etc.
None of these men would be considered particularly manly by the degenerates in the manosphere, but each of them would psychically and emotionally and in some cases (Swede was BIG big, like absentmindedly lift a stack of tires all at once well into his 70s big).
I guess this clarifies what I think of as the basis of virtue, which is being tough. Would you be as you were if life was a bit harder? This is also why I don't respect gender I suppose; because to in the end it's the same for all humans; regardless of your chromosomal or phycological arrangements.
I would suspect that to the extent this is true, it's because it was so utterly self-evident that talking about it would seem silly. Those old guys absolutely had strong beliefs about what makes a man a good man, or a woman a good woman, and they definitely knew and believed that those were separate categories. What they didn't have was a bunch of autistic or naval-gazing Discourse about it.
This is because the manosphere types are operating outside the paradigm of a community, so they have to hyperfocus on visually obvious elements. I've raised the topic before, and it seems relatively rare for the posters here to have opportunities to be helpful in their communities. Many are atomized, isolated.
Bluntly, if the girls never get to see you carrying 8 chairs at a time back to storage after church, then you might need to signal strength extra super hard by shallower metrics.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link