Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
PaperclipPerfector
12hr ago
(text post)
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Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
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Notes -
ICC (the International Code Council), in collaboration with THIA (the Tiny Home Industry Association), is in the process of developing a new standard for "small residential units and tiny houses", ICC/THIA 1215.
The IRC (International Residential Code) already defines "tiny house" as 400 ft2 (37 m2) or smaller.
The latest draft of this new standard (available through the "documents" link on this page) additionally defines "small residential unit" as 1200 ft2 (111 m2) or smaller.
The name of the committee is "Standard for Off-Site Construction Tiny Houses", and this collaboration with THIA is building on a previous collaboration with MBI (the Modular Building Institute). However, this new standard will apply, not just to newfangled off-site (wheeled, modular, and panelized) construction, but also to traditional on-site (stick-built) construction.
For ease of visualization, here are examples of "tiny" and "small" floor plans. (I still am waiting for you to post the plan of your dream house (1 2)—or your dream neighborhood.)
(Can we extend this progression? "Normal" ≤ 3600 ft2 (334 m2), "large" ≤ 10800 ft2 (1003 m2), and "mansion" > 10,800 ft2 (1003 m2)? ;-) Generally, for apartment buildings (occupancy R-2) made of wood with no special fire rating (construction type V), the IBC prescribes limits of 7000 ft2 without sprinklers (no longer allowed in new buildings), 21,000 ft2 with spinklers and multiple stories, and 28,000 ft2 with sprinklers and one story. But no such restrictions apply to houses (occupancy R-3).)
This interesting article covers how ICC was caught flat-footed by data centers' sudden rise in popularity. In what occupancy do they belong?
Business, like electronic data entry?
Moderate-hazard factory/industrial, like lithium-ion-battery assembly and usage?
Moderate-hazard storage, like lithium-ion-battery storage?
This has important ramifications for code requirements.
In the end (technically not finalized at the time of this article's publication), the responsible committee decided to put it in moderate-hazard factory/industrial. (See the committee's response to proposal G38-25, contained in the "report of committee action to CAH 1" document on this page.)
ICC is in the very early stages of developing a guideline on data centers. Nothing but a tentative outline has been published so far (in the "documents" on the linked page).
9 residents in 1198 sq ft seems bonkers to me. That's about 133 sq ft per person. The average male takes up 8.625 sq ft laying down.
When I was young we lived in a 700sq ft rental as a family of five, and it was not a good time, despite being more square footage per person than the example dwelling above.
Is there an assumption that people are sleeping in shifts, or something?
The building code is meant as a strict minimum to protect health and safety. OP is an engineer whose idea of efficiency is that the ideal dwelling adheres as close to these minimums as possible. Comfort and aesthetics are of no concern here, only that the occupants aren't put at any physical risk. He's currently building a house with a living room the size of a small apartment, with a living room about the size of my office at work, and he thinks that he'll be able to rent out the second bedroom to two people because the square footage is within ICC guidelines for four adults.
I have put significant thought into my comfort and aesthetics. If I have no concern, it's for other people's comfort and aesthetics, since they will not be living there.
Whenever I take walks in my city, I literally think to myself: "Why were these houses built so ugly? What was the point of building a steep roof enclosing a useless attic? What was the point of putting the edge of the second floor on a useless cantilever, or installing a wacky bow window, instead of just building a straight wall?"
Confusing typo
That's just a failsafe for after my mother dies, 30 years in the future. I don't really expect to need to rent that bedroom out to anyone but her.
A house the size of a small apartment, with a living room about the size of my office at work.
Anyway, I know I've been critical of your house, and I apologize if I've been a little hard on you, but about a decade ago I went through a crash course on all of this where I thought I knew what I was doing and ended up having my eyes opened after I decided to hire professionals. I lived in my last house from the beginning of 2014 to the end of 2023, so almost ten years. When I bought it it was 20 years old and was at just about the point where it needed remodeled, though it was technically in move-in condition. When I got to the kitchen (it was finished in May of 2015, though I can't remember when I started looking into the process), I went to a locally-owned cabinet place and took photos and sketches I had made and looked at samples with a guy who gave me some options, told me they could do what I wanted, quoted prices, and tried to sell me on all the current trends. I felt like the guy knew what he was talking about, and he gave me some printouts with the designs that we had looked at.
A few weeks later my parents told me about an Amish guy who had made furniture for them a couple years prior for a ridiculously low price and had just done a kitchen for friends of theirs for a ridiculously low price, and I should write him. It was a complicated process but I had to write him and give him my phone number, then he'd call me. I had to drive 90 minutes one way to pick him up, take him to my house to measure, then drive him back, because obviously he doesn't have a car. When I got back to his shop he quoted me a price we looked at samples and the hand-built, maple cabinets I ended up choosing cost the same as the cheapest particle board option at the cabinet place, and if I wanted them installed it would be $400 extra. Obviously this deal was too good to pass up, but the guy was no kitchen designer. He could build anything you showed him a picture of, and he kept catalogs in his shop if you needed ideas, but he didn't speak the lingo of the cabinet shop guy, and had no idea about workflow or anything. He said to just tell him what I wanted and he's build it. Not wanting to wing it, I could now afford to hire an architect to design the kitchen.
He basically told me to ignore everything the cabinet guy told me (which was a lot of things, but never a "no"). For example, I had an eat-in area that I never used since I always ate in the dining room. The only time it ever got used was when I was entertaining, and as a junk collector. I wanted to replace it with something else, so I thought I'd put cabinets on the wall for storage of seldom-used items and below that I'd have a bench that could be used as a buffet if I was entertaining, or maybe more cabinets and a counter, or maybe a desk (it was kind of a muddled idea). He told me that based on how much stuff I had I could keep the overhead cabinets but anything else was too far away from the work area to be used and bound to become a junk collector without the advantage of having people be able to sit at it during parties. That saved a couple thousand right there. This was also the time open shelving was starting to become a thing, and the cabinet guy had mentioned that. He told me that if I wanted a display shelf that was fine, but that if I wasn't already a perfectly organized person, being forced to put all my crap on public display wouldn't make me one. This guy told me tons of shit like that that I never would have thought of. He went through my stuff and asked how often I used each item, so that he could design the cabinets in such a way that the more frequently used items would be easiest to access.
So when I and someone else pointed out all the door conflicts and you said you'd just keep the doors closed all the time I reflexively thought "Does everyone in your household reflexively close doors immediately after use?" Because if the answer is no, then neither you nor anyone else is going to start doing it just because of conflicts. Habit is going to take over and will only change after dealing with the endless frustration of banging doors into each other. I love architecture, but I am not an architect, and I wouldn't try to design my own house. There are some things that you can DIY, but for some things you want to call in the pros, and with how much money is on the line and how often you use it, I wouldn't want to risk a bad house design. Nonetheless, I wish you the best of luck and hope everything works out for you.
As I said above, my characterization of your criticism as "much maligning" was a humorous exaggeration.
I certainly do. My mother doesn't, but I think that's due more to the poor insulation of her current bedroom (converted from a garage) than to preference.
This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. In my (mother's) current house, I eat all my meals at one of two 4′ × 2′ desks in my bedroom. In my future house:
I will eat all my meals at one of three 4′ × 2′ desks in my bedroom. There will also be three 4′ × 2′ shelving units (up from two in my current bedroom), plus a 4′ × 2′ wardrobe (replacing a closet that I hate for constraining my furniture arrangement) and a twin XL loft bed.
In the living/dining room, I will install a big television on a fancy swing-out mount (primarily for the benefit of anyone who uses the kitchen for an extended period of time), but other than two housewarming parties (one with my mother, my former coworkers, and possibly my brother, and another with my father and his parents) I do not plan to use the living/dining room for anything but "junk collection". There is no need for it to be any bigger than the 200 ft2 that the IPMC requires in a five-occupant house.
I obsessed over getting a custom house for two or three years (including purchase of several related books (1 2 3)) before actually buying a lot and hiring a contractor, so I did put some thought into it.
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