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PaperclipPerfector  1d ago (text post)   3530 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 30, 2026

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So "Into The Manosphere" is a netflix documentary, that im sure many here have heard of.

Here is a video on it that I watched, by a psychiatrist. Although I enjoyed it enough, there is a common sentiment that deserves to critiqued, one that was echoed in the video, that i will simplify with a youtube comment (note: this comment is in response to another comment, the context of whic i will be representing by {} brackets):

See, this is what has always genuinely confused me, too.{Why should we be good men? Just be a good person bro?} Why is there so much emphasis on the man part{of male role-modes} (except maybe that's literally part of patriarchy, too)? I didn't grow up thinking about how to be a woman, I grew up thinking about wanting to be a scientist and wanting to travel and be a generally good and mostly happy person. The whole being a woman thing was just something society forced on me that I mostly resented. Just teach people to be good, healthy, functional people.

But a lot of men, including people I genuinely respect and agree with on sociopolitical issues still seem to think there's value in some type of male identity. And maybe there is, but no one has been able to explain it to me. But the need for some kind of masculine identity just seems like insecurity and needing a set of rules to live by from the outside, instead of doing the work of learning to be a whole, messy, beautiful human being.

And don't get me wrong. I think men get confined to a tighter box in terms of acceptable behavior than women, even as that box often comes with higher social standing. Sometimes, I feel really sad for boys that have to grow up in this mess. But also, how hard is it to just learn to be yourself without all the weird, gendered expectations? I'm really very baffled by it all.

I think this gender abolitionist framing is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Men & Women are judged and valued by society differently. Men are valued based on their ability to climb up social hierarchy to obtain status. Women's value is more reflected by their attractiveness, and reproductive capabilities. Masculinity (attempts) to provide useful guidelines and structure to achieve this end. Women simply do not exist in the same space, so their variation of being a role model wouldn't be a good representation of the male position. It would be a kin to a white man trying to be a role model for black boys - the critical social context is not there.

Women don't grow up thinking about how to be woman, because much of what defines femininity is there by default. You are simply born a sexy girl - you simply gestate a fetus - and then give birth to it. There is little to no skill barrier required in comparison.

The problem with "being yourself" as so often espoused by liberal types is that, it provides 0 road map to achieving the traits that women (and people in general) value in men. & this is the same general issue I take with the manosphere opponents - Many of these individuals believe completely asinine and reality denying ideas like "Looks don't matter" or "You just need to be a good person to be attractive". The manosphere, for all its misogyny and toxicity, is at least calling out the reality of the situation: If you are poor, fat, and socially inept - as a man, you will be harshly judged and looked down on within our society. This is - arguably - one of the main appeals of the manosphere to begin with. If one really wants to see the manosphere go away - we need to start looking at these realities of life straight to the face. Only then can one begin to provide meaningfully positive alternatives.

Masculinity and femininity as general pro-social concepts are only really useful when there is a division of gender roles. Modern society has been mostly trending away from gender roles so I would agree that teaching masculinity or femininity is less relevant than ever. The major exception being, of course, dating and sexual attraction. Which makes this look like yet another example of a woman having a blind spot to what women are attracted to. My only disagreement with OP is that this applies equally to women and I think you're hitting the same blind spot. To the extent that men and women are attracted to different things women also need to learn how to be feminine in order to be attractive. Girl game is real, look at Bezo's new wife for example.

Masculinity and femininity as general pro-social concepts are only really useful when there is a division of gender roles.

Why would masculinity and femininity be downstream of social roles rather than biological tendencies? Regardless of social expression, there needs to have a framework for disciplining the excess physical energy of rambunctious teen boys, and the excess social power of young-adult women.

Masculinity and femininity as general pro-social concepts are only really useful when there is a division of gender roles

Id argue that the masculinity and feminity, to the extent they are socially constructed are just attempts to understand and navigate the base biology of two sexes. There is more to that than just the "roles".

To the extent that men and women are attracted to different things women also need to learn how to be feminine in order to be attractive

Hmm, im curious, whats your argument here?

Lol. Really? I’m sorry man, but have you been outside the last 30 years and seen their behavior? Evidently it isn’t something that comes naturally.

Idk, pointing at somewhat extreme outliers but there seems to be no male Amoranth (spelling?) or female West Elm Caleb, zoomer culture may be dysfunctional in many ways but it's not not gendered.

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