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Also ditto this whole question for small men vs larger men. Look at people like llamar gant, 120 lbs 5'2 and deadlifting pretty much 700 lbs, bench 350 at 130 lbs (with bad leverages, he had severe scoliosis so his arms are actually average-length). Is that dude seriously weaker than average joe at 6'0? Or even 6'5? I mean when you get to that level of strength, you can manhandle anyone no, even if they a foot taller than you?
Like if you can squat the taller dude on your back and regularly throw around 300 lb+ weights in the gym, are you really at much of a disadvantage in a fight? I guess striking you would be due to body length of course.
Is the hard part the statistics that its difficult to get to that level of strength at that height? I just don't see how these things work exactly. Why dont more MMA fighters get to those powerlifting numbers? Llamar gant had the leanness for MMA but the strength for powerlifting, why isn't that combo more common, and why wouldn't it make a big difference going against heavier folk? I'm assuming everyone must be training powerlifting to the same degree and their MMA training just doesn't let them recover well enough to get as strong, pound for pound, as people like llamar gant? A sort of deal where everyone is training equally hard and some are just also bigger than others, thus they win?
How much is genetic and how much is will / desire to be strong? How much is frame size a factor?
a) Weight classes in competition are fake weights. A guy who cuts to compete at 130 probably walks around much heavier between comps. So he's still a small guy, but much less small than you think he is.
b) Availability is the most important ability for any athlete. When you push yourself in the weightroom, you risk injury, so serious athletes tend to go easy in the weightroom, or do partial RoM or odd lifts that target specific movement patterns while reducing odds of injury.
Interesting, that makes sense. Makes me wonder if going from a powerlifting-only background where you spend all your recovery points on weightlifting, to an MMA background where you lift just enough to maintain that strength (or would that still be too much?), could be an athletic history that produces special results? I wonder what would happen if eddie hall just lifted minimally to maintain his strength as much as he could while training 100% MMA or something.
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Opportunity cost. MMA fighters also have to be technically skilled and have a gas tank and be at the best weight for their professional prospects . All of that takes training time and conflicts with being as strong as possible.
And at a certain point height does just matter. Jon Jones comes from a family of athletes. MMA fans joke that he's actually the worst performing of his entire family. He has a horrible vertical and just can't seem to put muscle on his legs. But he had the perfect body type for light heavyweight because he was a great wrestler and out-ranged everyone. Daniel Cormier was an Olympic wrestler and he couldn't get past the height difference to take Jon down.
And maybe that is the other thing: MMA simply doesn't attract top talents as easily as other sports. Jon Jones - one of the greatest of all time - is essentially a fuckup who ruined his wrestling career which is why he jumped into MMA so young.
makes sense. Too bad though because it would be interesting to see what happens if you take one of the powerlifting freaks, get them to maintain strength as much as possible, and get them proficient at MMA. I know there are some dudes in MMA that would probably have high powerlifting numbers tho, Ngannou probably does.
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Yes, reach is a bitch. Based on limited personal experience, a large height gap strongly overcomes a muscle gap. Top tier athlete/power lifter might swing the balance back, I would guess, and all of this is assuming no particular training discrepancy, but a foot+ of height advantage is massive.
Wow that's crazy wouldn't have thought height gap mattered more than muscle gap.
I had almost this exact scenario come up once, in the last real fight I got into in high school. A short guy who had spent the last year getting jacked, after my 6'+ ass quit all sports and devoted the previous year to D&D and Warhammer. He hit me with a sucker punch while I was kneeling at my locker, and then let me get up for a proper fight... and then didn't land another hit. It honestly felt easy. He just has so much further for each punch to travel. It felt like I had so much time and space to react.
Put it this way: I had to angle down slightly to punch him in the face, and if my fist was hitting him at full extension, then his fist was whiffing inches short of my chest.
There's probably some ratio where things flip. A height gap of 3" wouldn't matter like that. But a foot or more? It's like an adult versus a tween. Would have to be a hell of a tween. And again, training or skill differential will matter more. My examples are "teenage idiot versus teenage idiot".
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