Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
- 181
- 1
What is this place?
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
If in doubt, please post it!
Rules
- Courtesy
- Content
- Engagement
- When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
- Proactively provide evidence in proportion to how partisan and inflammatory your claim might be.
- Accept temporary bans as a time-out, and don't attempt to rejoin the conversation until it's lifted.
- Don't attempt to build consensus or enforce ideological conformity.
- Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
- The Wildcard Rule
- The Metarule

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
That too, but I also blame that on capitalism. I grew up in a particularly rural part of a country that hadn't really felt the hand of the market pinch it's ass yet; no running water no electricity one phone you rode a horse three hours to reach and then gave your message to the guy who ran it; type of place.
The way standards DROPED when the market finally arrived was crazy; but in exchange you get to have a big piece of red meat a couple times a month in your own house instead of a couple times a quarter when someone killed an animal.
It's a trade off you only know you are making if you've lived both ways, and I'm part of the last generation from one of the last places on earth that will even have the opportunity to feel it, outside of weird cults and rejectionist tribes.
Why is your problem capitalism in particular and not technology or market forces?
As usual when people complain about capitalism I get the sense that you're just unsatisfied with the basic structure of reality.
ETA I do appreciate your perspective and can relate to some degree.
Because it really is the ideological element of capitalism, the religious faith that price signals and consumption capture all useful information and that whoever has the biggest number is divinely ordained by god (the Market) where the difference sets in.
We had markets for thousands of years before capitalism, we had technological advances for thousands of years before capitalism, and capitalism IMO actually has a very poor track record in spurring the development of novel technological frameworks compared to autism.
That's not to say that the system in question doesn't deliver the results, because it clearly does. I just think that the people that were born capitalists in a capitalist world, read capitalist books, went to capitalist church and live capitalist lives are almost incapable of imagining that the world was once different, and at some point in the future will be different again.
It's like you said, they imagine that the ability to freely accrue capital, and turn wealth into capital, and turn capital into wealth, are "the basic structure of reality", when that has only been true globally for about 70 years.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link