site banner
PaperclipPerfector  3mo ago (text post)   27751 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of April 20, 2026

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

5
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Frost would have liked that son to be able to assess if the neighbor was good or bad. Look at the apple tree. and Decide for himself whether to mend the wall or let it fall.

Wait until you get into a boundary dispute or want to sell land or buy land or are in a court fight with a neighbour over whose responsibility it is that that tree branch broke off and fell on the roof of your car and damaged it. Arguments over closing off rights of way. Access to your land through someone else's property.

You'll see the point of maintaining established walls then. "Here is the land registry where the boundaries are marked. Here are the traditional paths."

Suppose Frost decides not to keep the apple orchard, now he's keeping goats or pigs. Or he wants to expand the orchard. Let the wall fall, then encroach on the neighbour's land and claim no, that was his patch all along. Same for the neighbour. I'm sure Frost would have been all for the neighbour making up his own mind whether to mend the wall or let it fall - right up until it came to "hey, why are you on my land?" when the neighbour started planting pine trees beside the apple orchard.

"Good fences make good neighbours" because it keeps you out of court.

the fence in Frost's poem is a metaphor for inherited rules (and sayings). i am not arguing for removal of literal property boundaries but for assessing which traditions serve us before mending them reflexly.

Before the metaphor, there is the reality of the falling-down wall. Fix your leaky roof first, then philosophise all you like about "but isn't this just blindly reflexive tradition?" Though if you like sitting under the rain streaming down your walls, well that's your choice.

i agree that practical walls (and roofs) serve real functions.

but do you ever assess which walls require mending? or do you mend every wall on reflex?

The broken wall is the wall that gets mended, but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure: maintenance so the wall doesn't break in the first place is cheaper and better.

i think we are operating at different levels. my original argument was whether one should assess which inherited rules to maintain, not whether practical maintenance is useful. i agreed (later) that it is useful.

but "an ounce of prevention" applied universally to all walls, all rules, all traditions, sometimes with the urgency of leaky roofs, is exactly the unreflective position i was describing. the question is not whether to maintain walls, it is which ones, and why?

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats