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I think the perpetrator in that case….just read the article….did in fact have proper cause to shoot up a synagogue. He’s still my enemy. Most Jews do support Israel, many go on their free trip to Israel, vote for US guns to go to Israel, and the key point ISRAEL did kill a bunch of his family in Lebanon. Human groups do have conflict. He doesn’t have the state capacity to go win a war and remove Israel. This isn’t mistake theory….he is/was properly at war with Israel. Same thing Bin Laden the US did arm a regime that was against his interests. He had a proper cause to hit the US and the US being mightier after being hit had cause to torture and kill his supporters. It’s war. Civilizations are clashing and they kill each other.
My personal vote is we should have never let a Lebanese Muslim into the country. There’s no crying in war. If your tribe kills a guys family then yes he’s allowed to try and kill your tribe.
That’s not a defense he has to get off for murder but it is a moral justification for revenge. And I support the US cops killing him.
But this is that exact absurd collective guilt framing the article was decrying!
A few years ago, Liam Neeson told an anecdote about how, when he was younger, a close friend of his was raped by a black man, which drove him into such a rage that he stalked the streets of London carrying a cosh, looking for a black man to beat up in retribution (thankfully he didn't go through with it in the end). He told this anecdote essentially as a cautionary tale about how ugly, prejudiced attitudes can sneak up even on well-meaning people, and how one must actively resist the urge to submit to one's darkest base impulses – and even with this context he was still excoriated as a racist.
Meanwhile, a Lebanese man shoots up a synagogue in Canada, and people say "well, several of his family members were killed by people who share ethnic heritage with the people in that synagogue, so he was justified in trying to kill them".
Would an American who lost family on 9/11 be justified in shooting up a mosque? Would an Englishman who lost family in an IRA bombing be justified in shooting up a Catholic church in Clapham?
Being Jewish and at a Synagogue isn’t quite the same thing as being black. I understand people’s desire to keep the culture of their parents buts it’s still a CHOICE to be Jewish and at a Synagogue. American Jewish money and votes are a big reason why Israel wins wars. Maybe just being at a Synagogue doesn’t make you complicit with Israel but at what point would you be part of their war effort? A person donating to AIPAC or more?
Now I am not saying any random person gets to take action here. But at some point you end up being a Nazi and a Frenchmen living in NYC in 1942 and you become 2 people who are actually in war living in a third country.
So I will asks you a question what actions by the Jewish Synagogue would make it not “Collective Guilt” for a man with family killed by Israel to shoot them?
To answer your final question would an American be justified shooting up a mosque who had losts a family member in 9/11? Potentially yes.
"You can be as Jewish as you like, just as long as you don't engage in any of the cultural practices associated with Judaism, not even in private."
What is the word "potentially" doing there? Would an American who lost a family member in 9/11 be morally justified in shooting up a mosque, yes or no?
Potentially I believe I was referring to is it a Mosque that passes around a hat funding X,Y,Z I’m a terrorist cell. So then yes. Same as if someone who lost a person to an IRA bomb shooting up an Irish pub in Boston that took donations. So yes there would need to be an added connection in these cases.
So what you're really saying is "Alice is entitled to seek revenge on people who actively conspired to murder Alice's family members". That's really not what I'm asking. I'm asking, is an American who lost a family member on 9/11 entitled to shoot up a mosque even if he has no reason to suspect that any of the worshippers in said mosque had even the most tangential role to play in 9/11? Is he entitled to shoot up a mosque purely on the basis that the worshippers in that mosque are part of the same "tribe" (broadly defined) as the people who killed his family?
Just shooting for tribe affiliation would be wrong. This was with regards to Israel. So what I was proposing at what point does a Synagogue have actual ties to Israel and it’s not just affiliation?
It’s a good bet that a lot of the young adults visit Israel and probably did birth right tours. Highly likely many have dual citizenship. A reasonable bet their is backing of AIPAC which has been Israel’s hammer to keep significant military aid flowing to Israel.
I think we could agree for a Muslim who had relatives killed by IDF that Sheldon Adelson would be an appropriate revenge target. The US obvious does drone strikes on people who raised funding and organization capital for terrorists.
By this standard, any Muslim who has ever visited Mecca is fair game for assassination at the hands of someone who lost family in 9/11. Is that the standard you endorse?
Mecca is a religious site
Israel is a colonial state - I like Israel but it is fundamentally a colonial state founded by Europeans replacing the local population
Don’t get me wrong Israel does have religious significance, but a modern Jew is like 50% Italian.
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