site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of February 13, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

10
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Last week I was wondering whether the first chinese balloon story was really so interesting as to occupy the top 4 spots in /r/all and 5 of the top 11. Today, a week after the Ohio train chemical spill, the full severity is finally hitting the front page, albeit only one post at the 10th spot as of now, with the "why isn't this being talked about" group battling with the "it is being talked about, here's 10 news links" group in the comments. I saw the chemicals specifically being discussed a few times before today in doomer prep subs, but the front page was mostly UFOs or earthquake posts the last few days. Charitably, what the latter group don't understand is that what the former means, is, why did a tangible disaster story go less viral than a relatively inconsequential balloon, why wasn't it talked about the way we talk about other threats, why did it not develop the way we've come to expect big stories to develop? Uncharitably, the latter want to reinforce the conservative conspiracist trope. The white house certainly could have made a big statement about it, like they did with multiple statements about balloons and UFOs, but it's not false to say there was coverage of the train story, despite it being punctuated/less than the expected amount.

Every country will signal boost other stories to take the heat off embarrassing incidents, but what is unique is how skilled western media/culture is at dancing around plausible deniability. They covered it, but something clearly wasn't the same. It's like a rhetorical ABS, as in making controlled micro delays, to render judgment impossible, until enough time has passed that whatever the truth is, it's become a fait accompli. Like with the nordstream bombing, or old CIA shenanigans/warcrimes, the facts are suspended in the air until its old history, at which point you will have Americans saying how they're not surprised X or Y happened, but then turn around and continue to give themselves the benefit of the doubt or maintain faith in the system. Similar to gell-man amnesia but reflects worse for both the writer and the reader.

I wonder if it's because balloons are inherently funny, chemical spills are not very funny (although there was a funny disaster involving molasses once...), UFOs are mysterious, there is the international conflict angle, Ohio is the worst state... basically, the balloon story is memeworthy, the chemical spill is not.