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PaperclipPerfector  4d ago (text post)   12881 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 4, 2026

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Men have no competing movement because asking for protection is humiliating in erstwhile male society.

I think the bigger issue is that men as a group have little or no in-group bias compared to women -- who have strong in-group bias. So it's much more natural for women to organize and lobby for goodies for women.

One day, men will have their feminist movement. To men of this era, It will be ugly. It will look like boys becoming twinks. It will look like weak men refusing to take responsibility. It will look like welfare queens. As much as this forum is pro-men, I bet the shape of the eventual pro-men movement will disgust the median man on here.

These sorts of things are extremely difficult to predict, but barring any game-changing development in technology, I think the far likelier outcome is that subgroups which raise men and women both to fulfill traditional roles will just out-breed everyone else. How can a modern liberal woman who goes to grad school and has 2 or 3 children compete with a Haredi or Amish woman who marries at 18 and has 6-10 children?

Even with a low in group preference you would think that men would organize jointly on matters that impact all men, like with the evolutionary disadvantage men have when it comes to ensuring paternity.

And, well, this is what they did historically. What we call patriarchy is mostly just a way of managing this problem.

I don't think it can be explained purely by low in group favoritism for that reason.

How can a modern liberal woman who goes to grad school and has 2 or 3 children compete with a Haredi or Amish woman who marries at 18 and has 6-10 children?

Convert their kids. Some people already have the illiberal instincts to justify this.

[Per Patrick Deneen]We were discussing the practice of Rumspringa—literally, “running around”—a mandatory time of separation of young adults from the community during which they partake of the offerings of modern liberal society. The period of separation lasts usually about a year, at the end of which the young person must choose between the two worlds. An overwhelming number, approaching 90 percent, choose to return to be baptized and to accept norms and strictures of their community that forbid further enjoyment of the pleasure of liberal society. Some of my former colleagues took this as a sign that these young people were in fact not “choosing” as free individuals. One said, “We will have to consider ways of freeing them.” Perfect liberal consent requires perfectly liberated individuals, and the evidence that Amish youth were responding to the pull of family, community, and tradition marked them as unfree.

I'm sure the state can do plenty of things to try to suppress fertility. We've arguably mastered that trick by accident.

Even with a low in group preference you would think that men would organize jointly on matters that impact all men,

Why would you think that? I would seriously like to know your reasoning.

like with the evolutionary disadvantage men have when it comes to ensuring paternity.

Actually, being able to impregnate women and have other men pay to raise the resulting child is a huge advantage, at least for some men.

I'm sure the state can do plenty of things to try to suppress fertility. We've arguably mastered that trick by accident.

Doesn't seem to be working in Israel, and the US is next in line.

I think that because historically male led societies have been brutal to disfavored or enemy men but have general taboos against adultery, presumably cause men don't care if some man dies in a jail cell but care if they might get cucked.

As for child support cucking other men...yes, that would be great. But you can also be called for child support too AFAIK.

As for the Haredi, they're a much larger percentage of Israel's electorate than any conceivable US comparison.

I think that because historically male led societies have been brutal to disfavored or enemy men but have general taboos against adultery, presumably cause men don't care if some man dies in a jail cell but care if they might get cucked.

I'm not sure I understand your point here. From this, how does it follow that you would expect men as a group to organize in order to promote the interests of all men?

As for the Haredi, they're a much larger percentage of Israel's electorate than any conceivable US comparison.

Right, as I said the US is next in line. What do you think is happening with ultra-religious groups in the US? The answer is that -- for the most part -- their populations are exploding.

Not organize promote the interests of all men as a whole. But to protect against something all men have a reason to protect against.

Not organize promote the interests of all men as a whole. But to protect against something all men have a reason to protect against.

Ok, let me see if I understand your argument:

(1) At some point in the past, many male-led societies established social norms and laws against adultery;

(2) This shows that men can and do organize jointly on issues that impact all men;

(3) Therefore, in general one would expect men to organize jointly on matters that impact all men.

Is that your argument?

3 is too general. It's "Therefore we should expect men to continue to do so". My issue is that an inherent lack of in group preference alone can't explain it since past men figured out how to coordinate here.

3 is too general. It's "Therefore we should expect men to continue to do so". My issue is that an inherent lack of in group preference alone can't explain it since past men figured out how to coordinate here.

I'm not a historian, but I'm pretty sure that the example you give is not really an example of coordination by men in general but rather coordination of elite men to protect their interests from the interests of non-elite men. I'm going by the Hebrew Bible, which is obviously not literally true, but I think it does give one a taste of how society was organized at the time norms against adultery were established. In those days, elite men married multiple women. Which means there were likely non-elite men who were the Biblical equivalent of incels. How convenient that these bachelors were subject to an order from the Almighty to refrain from making a move on the woman of a high status man. Even the phrase "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife," addressed to men, suggests that this norm was about regulating the relations among men; the interests of women don't seem to be much of a factor one way or another.

So I don't think your example provides much evidence to support your argument.

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