This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Just because no super genius on an abandoned island can build a plane by themselves doesn't erase their immense and overwhelming power when given opportunities. Society works by depending on each other, but there's a reason why it's those like Jensen Huang or Elon Musk and not some John Smith who works as a trash collector. Trash collection is an extremely valuable and necessary role, but he is easily replaceable with anyone else. Huang is not.
It's obviously not actually that simple, but valuation is the easy quick way to determine a person's value to society. What Huang has created is worth trillions of dollars. Because you can earn a billion dollars if you do things that people really really want.
You're right, unfortunately despite the grinder culture selection effect of immigration, it's not enough to overcome the growing problem of victimhood natives who instead of embracing freedom and opportunity, turn to their phones to whine on Tiktok instead about how unfair it is that the smarter and harder working Indians and Asians are "taking their jobs".
I'm not sure why you perceive the rest of the world as Mordor where any burgeoning company is instantly snuffed by the inability of peons to execute tasks. Nvidia has always manufactured a significant chunk of their product in Taiwan due to expertise, talent and advantages that don't exist inside the USA. The USA's useful more for being the best place to raise cash than necessarily in terms of pure manufacturing or actually making things happen.
Which is where your argument starts to run into a wall where it's more that the USA is a PVP realm of adspend optimizers, Facebook button colourers, ligitation and financial magicians. None of this is a particularly good use of human capital, actual manufacturing has been fucked off to other countries since getting affordable, hard-working talent to do it in the West is increasingly difficult
More options
Context Copy link
They also can't build it in certain densely populated, resource-rich, parts of the world either.
Yes, that's my argument. You'll note that at no point have I denied their contribution, literally said "no amount of Jensen Huangs, can compensate for the social erosion caused by mass immigration from incompatible cultures" , a point which you are deliberately avoiding now.
You'll again note that at no point have I denied Huang's contribution to society. What I did deny was his ability to compensate for mass migration from incompatible cultures. The argument for him possessing that ability clearly rests on it being that simple.
- Doctor, I think I have a cold.
- Here, have some arsenic. Feel any better?
- No, I feel a lot worse...
- You're right, unfortunately despite the healing effect of arsenic, it's not enough to overcome the growing common cold infection in your body...
There's absolutely no reason to believe the "grinder culture" culture of (some) immigrants in any way positively contributes to hosts cultures. On the other hand, the part of the native culture that is the most into victimhood narratives is also the most fanatically pro-immigration.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link