This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
...I understand that this place is corrosive to the angels of our better nature, and I freely admit to significant corrosion myself. Is this your genuine viewpoint, or are you trolling me?
It's my genuine viewpoint. I get the impression that most Republicans are stuck in a bubble where they don't pay attention to what rank and file Democrats actually do, or who they actually vote for. There were a few woke reps who managed to get elected in 2020, and a couple more from earlier, but a lot of them were primaried out before the Biden administration ended. The 2020 primary showed that beyond certain limited areas, there was no national appetite for woke politics. Black church ladies aren't woke. Neither are Hispanics, by and large. Suburban Democrats aren't. Rural granola types aren't. Wokeism only ever appealed to a certain segment of urban voter, who Republicans try to paint as being representative of the party, precisely because they're an easy target.
If woke had died in 2019, we wouldn't have have had Admiral Rachael, or the Nuclear crossdressing thief, or Jackson nominated for the supreme court. Woke lost its uncontested superiority, but that didn't diminish its hold over true believers.
More options
Context Copy link
Your claim that woke ended in 2019 makes me think that our definitions of woke are completely different. You seem to be defining woke as a temporary electoral strategy used by a few Democratic candidates. So, once Biden won and the most aggressively progressive campaigns fizzled out you determined that woke politics died.
All it really showed was that kind of excessive campaigning was electorally toxic. It does not show that the underlying ideology disappeared. Democrats are smart enough now to lick their fingers and gauge which way the wind is blowing so they've backed off, but our elites have not. It means the Democrats rejected the most explicit version of it. Meanwhile, the institutional version continued spreading. What I see as woke did not peak in 2019. It peaked after 2019, especially around 2020–2022, when DEI, intersectionality, equity policies, and identity based moral grandstanding became much more popular across our mainstream.
You say suburban Democrats are not woke, yet suburban Democrats are mostly college educated, and higher education is one of the main providers of this worldview. Suburban Dems may not act like campus activists anymore (unless you're in Somaliapolis), but a lot of them still support the institutional assumptions like equity, disparate outcomes as proof of discrimination, etc.
Also, Black church ladies and Hispanics pursuing their own self-interests are not indicators that woke is dead. Most voters aren't ideologues. Again, it's the institutions, and that is where this worldview lives. Higher and general ed, HR departments, foundations, activist nonprofits, media organizations, school administrations, professional associations, entertainment companies, and bureaucratic agencies.
Public backlash eventually arrived and these institutions did not willingly abandon wokeism. Some backed off. Others have begun to repaint it. They rename things. "Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion” becomes “Academic Culture and Community”, ideological screening can just be worded as “values alignment.” Their goal remains the same, it's just that the strategy just needs to be updated.
Woke became less useful for political campaigns, but that is very from it ending. What ended was the open branding. The institutional ideology remains, and it is adapting to embed itself more quietly.
More options
Context Copy link
Nah, they are. The suburban Dem women get their politics from TikTok now, and they believe the septum piercings.
Their husbands secretly voted for Trump.
Suburbanites comprise a large portion of my social circle, ranging in age from 20s to 70s, and I can assure you that none of these things is true.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
BLM2 was in 2020 and there wasn't a single rank-and-file Democrat that opposed it. Every single Dem-sympathizing poster here expressed no objection to it, and the majority were outright sympathetic. Biden had age limits on gender reassignment procedures abolished. Then there's the question of if it even makes sense to judge thia by which politician gets elected. You can claim it was no specific politicians's fault that CRT got shoved into school curricula and mandatory corporate workshops, but that just shows your entire approach to this is flawed.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link