site banner
PaperclipPerfector  4d ago (text post)   16559 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 18, 2026

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

4
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Another problem with today's society is lack of third spaces. And another may be employees working and stressing more than necessary, because of inefficiency and toxicity from employers. If there were more third spaces, blue-collar employees worked for less hours, and there were more blue-collar employees in their 20s, they would be able to party and relax like college students.

Even today, if a high school graduate gets a vocational job that leaves time to hang out with their friends (who may be in college dorms and buildings that allow off-campus guests), their short term experience may be better: they don't need to worry about coursework off hours, and they have more disposable income (unless the college students are taking extra loans).

Although I think it ultimately depends on the person's interests. I know I'm much better at thinking than labor or service. If someone's genuinely passionate about a college field, or despises mindless work, they should get a degree, then maybe enter graduate school. But if someone only wants a social life and stable income, getting a degree they won't use is a waste, there are better ways for them to still enjoy their 20s.

I really didn't care for any third spaces, I would consume things like BJJ but not really put in effort to maintain them, for a long time. Then in my late twenties my wife and I were about to have a kid in a new city and we didn't know anyone. Joining a church kind of fixed everything socially.

How many hobby third spaces are going to help with kids, though. I like my BJJ gym but there's only a small selection with kids and it's mostly young professionals

Third spaces and food desert are similar. Third spaces don't exist, and healthy food is lacking because people don't want them.

In other words they are both convenient, polite, normie Sündenböcke which take the blame for issues in place of the real, impolite-to-point-out reasons.

For third spaces I think it's primarily lack of incentives for third space creation and maintenance, and the lack of incentives stems from wealth. Food deserts are probably more what I suspect you're darkly hinting at, but I also put wealth in a big part of that, society being wealthy and providing ample welfare.

I get the impression that many in their 30s want third spaces, though like healthy food, they're too lazy to act. They would also be a better alternative for those in their 20s who go to college only for the social experience, and don't use their degree afterwards.

I doubt we can revert to past third spaces, but maybe the evolution of social media will create new in-person experiences. Like how GLP-1 helps people lose weight. Or the asocial people (who used to be pressured into socializing) may die off.

I get the impression that many in their 30s want third spaces

Do the ones with children want them? I get the impression this is some type of bonobo signal for childless bohemian millennials. They need something to fill the void.

It would be nice to have more indoor cheap kid places when the weather is bad. There are bounce and indoor playground places, but they are surprisingly expensive. These are still acceptable library programs, but not all that often.

At the quantity of kids that 30 somethings are having it seems plausible. One kid per parent is manageable, or it can be an evening to get away from the kids. I never want to predict the future lest I get bit in the ass but I take my toddler out. It's not everything it was before he started coming out with me but I just get to hang out with other parents as our kids interact. Or one parent takes a few kids and you trade off.

There's also the ultimate third space of Church where if they at all want to grow will have child management.

I'm an older millennial so I don't get the full experience of the kids these days, but the weekly trivia night I go to has a great ratio of younger adults, so does the church I attend.

As you noted I suspect the people complaining are lazy and also have a propensity to be weirdos who other's don't want to be around.

They want third spaces to exist, but they don't want to start them or put the required effort into them to make them flourish. Most people are just free riders that want the benefits. I run a local board game meetup and trying to get people to do anything more than show up (and even then) is very hard.

anything more than show up

But surely that's exactly the point of third spaces. They aren't supposed to be activities you have to put effort into - the whole point of third spaces is to enable what, for lack of a better term, I'll call socially-acceptable indoor loitering. When the bar and the bowling alley are third spaces, you don't go to the bar to drink, and you don't go to the bowling alley to hone your skill at the game. If you want your board game meetup to fulfill that role, you need to stop worrying about whether the people who show up actually play board games. Otherwise you're just running a hobbyist group. Hobbies are socially valuable too, but they're a different thing.

Sorta, if your goal is to just show up at the bowling alley or bar and not provide anything, the "socially acceptable loitering" I don't think you can complain when the space shuts down because it ran out of business by having too many free loaders. You don't need to be a try-hard at drinking or bowling but you should pay for a lane, buy a few drinks to nurse, and contribute to the community. In my specific case, it's "nominally" a board game hobbyist group but its more of a social space. We do a lot of non-board game things, social events, dinners, etc. But there are people that contribute to the community/space in the form of hosting/planning events, bringing supplies, food, and there are people that just show up, give no effort other than their presence. A community/space cannot survive with a too large majority of the latter.

I'd struggle to think of any hobbyist group that is not some form of third space. The simple law of reality is that in order for something to exist, someone needs to make it exist. And that requires effort. Legislating a third space into existence does nothing. Someone needs to actually go organize the community garden, the local pub, the dance hall. And if they get hit by a bus, and the third space falls apart? Well then someone else needs to step up and do the work.

That's totally fair. I misinterpreted "trying to get people to do anything more than show up" as suggesting you were mad at people not actually doing the signposted activity, rather than people refusing to do their fair share of the admin/etc.

A fair assumption, my b for not being more clear.

I want to second this. It's why I chose trivia, but trivia is just an excuse. I don't care if we answer a single question. It's mean to be a super low commitment reason to hang out. Granted it does help that we are one of the best teams in the area... winning is fun. But we do have regulars who almost never answer a single question.

Also if you do want to take it to the next level and create a friend group that does require some effort and sacrifice. But it's worth it, just don't expect everyone to contribute the same amount.

In my conception of effort, the effort required is not the people showing up to trivia, its the organizer. The one who gets the questions every week, contacts restaurants and bars for hosting, markets the event, etc. Regulars are great and you can't have a reliable third space without them, but if that organizer did not organize it, there would be no event. And if enough organizers in the local area don't organize it, there is no local trivia community.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats