This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
This post is far too "boo outgroup" to pass muster. You may as well have written it about cardiologists; it would not have been any less on the nose.
Extraordinary claims demand meticulous evidence. While I appreciate you providing some evidence in support of your claims, it seems sufficiently cherry-picked, and your account overall insufficiently steelmanned for your outgroup, that you have failed to clear the threshold here. Furthermore, you have not written in a way that evinces a sense that you are writing for everyone and want them to be included in the conversation.
This is your third warning in about a month; keep it up, and these will start becoming bans.
In cases like this I see a mod warning as more of a reward than a punishment. What is the OP coming here to do? Argue with a bunch of people. What are you doing? Arguing with them.
If you are willing to write up and say something it's costing you time and mental effort. 1 day bans feel like they should be a standard starting point, rather than what we apply after three warnings
That's what gets me, I have no idea if Lepidus wants to actually debate this or if they're just trolling and being weirdly dedicated to it.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Near universal participation in an activity amongst the upper classes in an activity is by definition not equivalent to selective posting regarding cardiologists. You can claim that it doesn't imply what I think it implies, but pretending it's selective is just open rank dishonesty.
A single instance of mass participation in an activity (mass cannibalism in the absence of famine) engaged in by no other modern society; is also entirely fair, in the same way it would be fair to suggest a deeper biological roblem if America was the only country where people had ever raped children.
As for the Yang Yue case or it's many counterparts, The Chinese themselves don't deny that they have a major crisis of callous indifference, they just blame it on modernity or if outside the CCP's jurisdiction, communism. Am I not allowed to interpret it differently in light of evidence of longlasting cruel tendencies?
Regardless of whether you agree that there is a meaningful link between cruelty to one's children and callousness to strangers', it's fundamentally against the spirit of this forum for you to threaten to ban me for it.
While not completely analogous, there are a few other events that are at least comparable, including several incidents in the Pacific Theater of WWII (most notably Chichijima, nearly involving future president George H. W. Bush). It's not quite as recent, but the story of Johan de Witt is undeniably Western as well.
More options
Context Copy link
I'm not threatening to ban you for drawing connections, I'm telling you that if you're going to post criticism of your outgroup, the rules place a number of restrictions on how you're allowed to do that, and you have failed to meet that threshold here. In particular, the rules suggest quite strongly that you should post about specific rather than general groups whenever possible, and I don't see a lot of evidence in your post that you even realize how many different ethnic (and, arguably racial) groups might be included in sweeping reference to "the Chinese." Furthermore, similar laundry lists of objectionable practices would be possible to assemble concerning any race of people or, indeed, of the human race. Even assuming the Chinese are every bit as bad as you say, that doesn't make them special.
If you think any of this is "against the spirit of this forum" then you have failed to grasp the spirit of this forum.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link